Stack vs Inmast

[geoleo]

My feel is that a non stack pack but a full batten laminate main that drops into a Catamaran style "Lazy Bag" with Lazy jacks that go to blocks on the spreaders that provide a wide venue high on the mast that keeps the upper battens enclosed as they come down will be best.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Cost? Friend on mine has a Hallspars carbon furling boom on his CNB 66 - $140,000 a pop. That's for the boom, not the boat.

Chump change for a >$2M boat. Seldon and Leisurefurls are no where near that price range.

[RoseLoper48]

Have you considered in-boom furling. It has the advantages of both systems you are debating.

[rick bertram]

I’ve had an in-mast Snelden system for 4 years. I single hand about 3 times a month in many weather conditions. It is very easy to reef and unless you furl it poorly you shouldn’t have any problems.

[knoxy]

I’ve had in boom furling (leisurefurl) for 6 years now. Sure, takes a little getting used to but once you get the boom angle sorted it’s easy as. Price (with sail and vang) was about $30k. Definitely sail a lot more as a result.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Ever use one? They are a little finicky as you need to keep the boom angle just right and they also do not have infinite reefing. Thought the same thing until we used one. The reef points are set at the battens (predetermined by the sail maker).

My experience exactly. I had a delivery for which the owner (owner aboard) was very clear not to adjust the rodkicker as he had finally gotten the angle just right. We scrounged a bit of broken batten and used colored electrical tape as a position indicator. The owner was nervous but was open minded enough to agree to give it a try. It worked well and he ended up spending a couple of hundred dollars on a permanent mount for our scrap of batten. The indicator was good to about +/- 1/16" (~1.5 mm) and turned out to be close enough to get the boom to furl reliably. I stole the batten idea from another skipper. The layered, colored tape is my idea.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Actually the opposite of this -- heavy weather is where in-mast furling shines. You can change sail area without heading up or even changing your course. I remember how much I used to dread coming head to wind when the seas were big, to reef my previous boat (so much so that I just wouldn't use the main sail after a certain point). It's all done from a safe place where you can concentrate on the job. Heavy weather is just where I want this system.


And on the contrary, for local sailing where passages are short and you can pick your weather, the advantages of in-mast are much less important, and I personally, because I'm crazy about sailing, would much prefer a nice roachy full batten sail.

Maybe for you, it sure wasn't for me. If you don't tension the sheet enough the sail overlaps and sticks, If you tension the sheet too much it wont go in. Meanwhile the boat is bouncing up and down 4-6 feet while you are trying to maintain the right balance of tension.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

My experience exactly. I had a delivery for which the owner (owner aboard) was very clear not to adjust the rodkicker as he had finally gotten the angle just right. We scrounged a bit of broken batten and used colored electrical tape as a position indicator. The owner was nervous but was open minded enough to agree to give it a try. It worked well and he ended up spending a couple of hundred dollars on a permanent mount for our scrap of batten. The indicator was good to about +/- 1/16" (~1.5 mm) and turned out to be close enough to get the boom to furl reliably. I stole the batten idea from another skipper. The layered, colored tape is my idea.

Had a similar set up on a Morris 51 where the owner already made his own measuring device on the vang to hit the "optimal" 87 degree boom angle for the Liesurefurl. Even w/that we still had to refurl the main after it did not furl correctly the 1st time (heavier air) and he was very experienced w/ the set up.


Bill O.

[Jimmyhenry]

Only sailed on one boat with in mast. NZ to Fiji. Wind was gusting. 30 to 40. The sail bunched and stuck. Took me 2 hours in a heavy rolling sea up the mast getting it out of the slot. Finger nails buggered. Body bruised to hell from being thrown around.
In mast?? A problem coming you don’t need.
Keep it simple. Stack it.
We reef from the cockpit. Simple and effective. Plus good sail shape.

[cjhat]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

Only sailed on one boat with in mast. NZ to Fiji. Wind was gusting. 30 to 40. The sail bunched and stuck. Took me 2 hours in a heavy rolling sea up the mast getting it out of the slot. Finger nails buggered. Body bruised to hell from being thrown around.
In mast?? A problem coming you don’t need.
Keep it simple. Stack it.
We reef from the cockpit. Simple and effective. Plus good sail shape.

I second the above, may have even been on that trip
If you need to furl then go Leisure Furl, not simple to use but it’s what I have. I reef early as it’s simple to unfurl where as furling in a blow can take a couple of goes sometimes but still easier than balancing on the boom

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by knoxy

Really surprised no one has yet brought up the option of in boom furling. Fully battened main, weight keep low, infinite reefing, ability to reef while sailing downwind. What’s not to like.

It was earlier on before a couple got so defensive about mast furling system faults that they made any intelligent debate impossible. Guess pride of ownership can be insurmountable.

There are a number of options, the least dependable and least effective of which is a mast furling sail as many here have already mentioned. Our boom furling is virtually flawless in its dependability and before that, so too was the Dutchman system on a traditional main.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Snore

First thank you for the kind words, there is a reason I am never "low bid". As a delivery captain, I often get mature boats with tired mains. As stated previously a tired main is one way to get a fold and a resulting jam. Even a seasoned in-mast user like you can bugger a tired main. Most of the owners I have aboard the delivery are on a new-to-them boat.

Regarding my comment on hubris- If you do something 1000 times perfectly- by the book, paying attention, etcetera- when you start taking shortcuts and not paying attention stuff will happen. I have seen it in 2 careers!

IMHO, on mast-furling boats, the dodger should have a window so you can see the main go into the mast. Perhaps it is because, I do care about the boats I deliver- every time a main is furled on a delivery the crew better be watching it go in. If this delivery captain sees anyone, owner or crew, not watching it go in- they will get the lecture about how to furl it properly. Keep in mind the captain is the guy who will need to clear it at 0200.

We agree on most- my philosophy is to be extra careful... Ya can't get in trouble for NOT breaking something on a delivery!

Who's taking short cuts? Two oceans so far and I can say the inmast furler is a joy, I must be lucky , seems I'm lucky in a number of areas according to some on this forum.

I was in Bazzaruto Mozambique last year, approx 20 boats waiting out weather, more than 2/3rds had inmast furlers ,all had crossed oceans to get there, they must have all been lucky as well.

I've said this before, I was terrified of inmast furlers.......until I had one.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Had a similar set up on a Morris 51 where the owner already made his own measuring device on the vang to hit the "optimal" 87 degree boom angle for the Liesurefurl. Even w/that we still had to refurl the main after it did not furl correctly the 1st time (heavier air) and he was very experienced w/ the set up.


Bill O.

I just dont get this stuff, 87° your got to be kidding, I certainly dont have to get mine anywhere near that exact, sometimes its blowing and you have to get it in, so I do. It's just not as tuff as some make it sound.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I just dont get this stuff, 87° your got to be kidding, I certainly dont have to get mine anywhere near that exact, sometimes its blowing and you have to get it in, so I do. It's just not as tuff as some make it sound.

He's talking about boom furling.

[CAVOK]

I’ve just done the same soul searching on this subject for a new 46’ boat. In the end I decided on a stack sail with a deep 3rd reef over an inmast furler. My reasoning was I couldn’t take the chance of a jammed furler mid-ocean in a blow, with only 1 or 2 onboard. It really came down to safety over what obviously is the convenience of furling. If in boom furling had been a financial option I would have considered it, not withstanding it probably has some issues too, but at least a jammed furler is not the same safety issue. I hope I’ve made the right decision, as all the above opinions have merit. Good luck with whichever decision you make.