Smaller fin keel boats for offshore sailing?

[argosail]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There are a tons of excellent boats that fit your preferences.

Here are four which I found rather quickly. All can probably be got for $50,000.

They are all moderate displacement boats with nice interiors.

Since you won't be buying for a couple of years the market will change. But for great sailing characteristics and good prices look for mid to late 1980's design like these.

The Sabre 32 tri-cabin would seem awesome for captain, admiral, and kids. Enough space for all 3 when needed, but wondering how well offshore the Sabre is, they do have a great quality reputation though. Haven't looked at the 34 much though.

[argosail]

Originally Posted by MacSails

Aren't C&Cs and Sabers balsa cored? It's not necessarily a dealbreaker, but would definitely give me pause. The other two are considerably larger than I'm currently thinking. I found a lot of good options when I was considering options in the 35-38' range. There seem to be considerably fewer options when it comes to tough boats in the low 30s, unless one wants to go heavy displacement long keelers.

Where did you get that C&C and Sabers are balsa cored hulls, do you mean the decks because THAT is fairly common and nowhere near as big a potential issue? A quick search on sailboatdata will show you they are not balsa cored.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MacSails

I hear you, but I am finding opportunities to sail most weeks as it is, albeit on other people's boats/terms. I am less concerned with the initial purchase price, than with the ongoing costs, and a cheaper boat will cost just as much in a marina, just as much to haul, and may need more upgrading than a more expensive boat of similar LOA. I also have an idea of what will appeal to my family. Contrary to what some posters have assumed, I don't believe that they need or expect a ton of space or creature comforts. But in my (admittedly limited) experience, a boat in the 30-33' range inspires confidence, in a way that a smaller boat doesn't necessarily. Conversely, I know my spouse will be intimidated by anything approaching 40'. In other words, I'm trying to thread a needle. Your Bristol is a beautiful boat. If I were by myself, I would consider something along those lines. if I wanted to stay in the bay, it would be fine for the four of us. But if I want to coax my family further afield, I think something a bit bigger/faster will help.

That's a good way to look at it.

I think I am over $15,000 spent on mine since 2011.

No structural repairs yet but lots of other stuff:

Replacement diesel
Replacement outboard(s) 5 Hp
New Mainsail
Solar Panels
Controllers
Inverters
Paint and supplies
Autopilot replacements (3)
LED Cabin Lamps
Shades
Custom Settee Cushion
Running rigging
life lines
Replacement Dodger and mainsail cover
Outboard Brackets (2)
RPI computers/Monitor as chart plotter
SH VHF/GPS/AIS
ALPs Sleeping Pads
Batteries (6) four 12 volt; two 6 volt 220 ah

Needed:

AIS Transponder
Rigging
Replacement Main and Jib

As far as size if I had it to do over for me as a singlehander 30' - 33' or so

[JimsCAL]

I personally would not consider anything below 30 foot for what you propose. I would look in the 33-36 foot range to get at least some space for all the things you will need to bring and store. With a $50k budget, there are lots of options from the mid-80s to early 90s to consider. The Sabres and Tartans from that era are well built boats - Tartan 34-2, Sabre 34-2 and 36, etc. I also like the J34c and J35c, though hard to find and may be above your budget. Note the boats I mention are usually called coastal cruisers (not blue water boats) but most of the use you describe in your first post is really coastal cruising.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by argosail

Where did you get that C&C and Sabers are balsa cored hulls, do you mean the decks because THAT is fairly common and nowhere near as big a potential issue? A quick search on sailboatdata will show you they are not balsa cored.

From the article in link:

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-531-c&c-35.html

Construction
The 35 predates C&C's extensive production of cored hulls.

Sabre:

Saber Marine Constructionhttps://saberboats.com › construction
Balsa core is used throughout the boat, in the hull bottom, sides and deck. End grain balsa core with a fiberglass skin on each side gives a stiff, strong, ...

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by argosail

Where did you get that C&C and Sabers are balsa cored hulls, do you mean the decks because THAT is fairly common and nowhere near as big a potential issue? A quick search on sailboatdata will show you they are not balsa cored.

I have to disagree with this, as someone who works in the trades. Water intrusion in deck balsa, and foam for that matter, is far more common. From my experience, people are much more likely to drill holes in the skin of the deck, to install things, and not seal or bed it correctly then they are to put holes in the hull. When they do put holes in the hull, they seem to be more nervous about it and tend to do a better job.

[shrspeedblade]

Having gone through the somewhat-obsessional early phase just a few years ago myself, based on my own personal experience my advice is buy a smaller, inexpensive but sail-worthy boat now, and just do a lot more sailing with it and experience boat ownership.

Don't aim to buy your cruiser right off, just get a smaller easier to handle boat enjoy yourself and learn! I can't tell you how many times after I got my NW33 I said to myself, out loud, "I'm so glad I didn't start with this boat!" And that's after sailing the snot out of my Columbia 28, which I would still tell someone was a little big for a first boat especially if singlehanding it a lot. It's not just a matter if you can do it, it's also important that you ENJOY yourself while doing it, especially your wife as well, and a smaller boat is simply more manageable. (In my defense I did try to buy a Cape Dory 25 that I missed by one hour beforehand!)

Edit: I didn't want keel bolts or an unprotected rudder for offshore sailing. Some people are fine with these things, as was I for only daysailing and coastal.

I read a lot too, but that only goes so far. There is simply no substitute to getting out there. If you can keep getting out on others boats do so- you'll learn faster than just being on one boat and save a lot of money LOL!

You've got some good resources with Atom Voyages and I'd recommend John Kretschmer's "Sailing a Serious Ocean" as well although he leans towards bigger boats, the principles stay the same. (He's a big Contessa 32 fan for obvious reasons.) If they're anything like the Alberg 30 I helped sail down the coast you want to be SURE you're ok with the amount of space before buying one.

Happy Sailing (and Hunting!) Go smaller, go simpler, go sooner.
P.S. You'll always keep looking at boats, I think we all do it, even after finding what we think is the perfect boat for us.

[Adelie]

How many kids?
Having kids myself I’ve thought an read about this a lot. Each kid should get their own permanent berth, no sharing a double, no converting a settee every morning and evening. So quarter berths or pilot berths.

Assuming 2 kids the a Cal 34 or 36.
40% B/D
Up until mid 1970s most were tiller.
Cal36 has nice big side decks for safely going forward in heavy weather.
For good light air performance you want a high SA/D and both are 18 or greater.
To make use of the high SA/D you want a large nylon foresail. My choice would be a drifter, basically a nylon Genoa near 180% which can sail almost closehauled almost to a dead run.
For 25-75% more money you can get a cruising chute with a sock for dousing which will get you somewhat more speed downwind but which probably can’t point much higher than a beam reach.
For 100-200% more money than a drifter you can get a CodeZero which is more or less an asymmetric chute on a roller furler that will be a little faster than the cruising chute and can point somewhat above a beam reach but definitely not close hauled.
You definitely DO NOT want a regular a symmetric chute with pole. While very skilled people can cruise with them short handed, if they get out of hand it can cause serious problems.

[not_yoda]

as a single-handed sailor, i've been VERY happy w/ my 1988 Catalina 34 wing keel... it weighs ~13k lbs, has a solid construction and so far, nothing has been difficult to fix! you also have a great support community via https://c34.org, etc... i find the catalina platform to be affordable and robust (i've also owned a catalina 25 and a 27)...

good luck!

[MacSails]

Originally Posted by Adelie

How many kids?
Having kids myself I’ve thought an read about this a lot. Each kid should get their own permanent berth, no sharing a double, no converting a settee every morning and evening. So quarter berths or pilot berths.

Assuming 2 kids the a Cal 34 or 36.
40% B/D
Up until mid 1970s most were tiller.
Cal36 has nice big side decks for safely going forward in heavy weather.
For good light air performance you want a high SA/D and both are 18 or greater.
To make use of the high SA/D you want a large nylon foresail. My choice would be a drifter, basically a nylon Genoa near 180% which can sail almost closehauled almost to a dead run.
For 25-75% more money you can get a cruising chute with a sock for dousing which will get you somewhat more speed downwind but which probably can’t point much higher than a beam reach.
For 100-200% more money than a drifter you can get a CodeZero which is more or less an asymmetric chute on a roller furler that will be a little faster than the cruising chute and can point somewhat above a beam reach but definitely not close hauled.
You definitely DO NOT want a regular a symmetric chute with pole. While very skilled people can cruise with them short handed, if they get out of hand it can cause serious problems.

I really like the design of the CAL 36, though it is very long in the tooth at this point. I'd also prefer a keel stepped mast, though it's not a deal-breaker. I'm very curious to try a drifter at some point. It seems to have fallen out of fashion, but I would think it would be a great sail for cruising.

[Adelie]

How many kids?

[MacSails]

Originally Posted by Adelie

How many kids?

Two. Both are old enough to be interested, but a little young to crew. In a couple of years my eldest should be able to help out.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MacSails

Two. Both are old enough to be interested, but a little young to crew. In a couple of years my eldest should be able to help out.

At age 10, my son was my crew when I raced my old Hobie 16.

When I bought an almost new Hobie 16 a few years later, my son got the old one at age 13 and would sail it as Skipper with his friends. This in Tennessee.

Picture of him below (age 15) is after we moved from Tennessee to Pensacola FL.

He and his friend from Memphis are about to cross Pensacola Bay to go to Pensacola Beach to meet girls (and eat Tacos) they had talked to online an hour or so before.

It's about a 12-14 mile sail depending.

They are on the newer Hobie 16 here as I had purchase a Nacra 6.0 which is what they were racing down there.

Picture of him on the trailer was at a regatta at Sardis Lake in Mississippi which we won in 1997. (the year explains the hair and sagging pants of a city kid/musician of the time)

There were 17 H16's on the starting line for the 5 races.

[maine50]

The Tartan 30 is almost the same as the Yankee 30 (both S & S designs). A lot more of them around. I'd spend the extra money and get one already outfitted with a diesel.
A very solid boat (assumed it's been maintained well). It has a skeg hung rudder, tiller,
rear transom boom sheeting. Many have sailed in Bermuda 1-2. Sails ok in light air and can go like a witch in medium and heavy air.

[donradcliffe]

I just delivered two express 34's, and was quite impressed with the boat. Fast, very well built, and laid out for offshore sailing. One was delivery was from Hawaii back to the mainland (third in its class in the Pacific Cup) and one was just down the coast. The second was was for a J120 owner who was downsizing, and reportedly bought a boat which had been donated to the Boy Scouts for $20,000.