Seeking Recommendations for Life raft

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The problem will be air freight with the CO2 cylinder, flares, batteries and tablets. A courier firm and the air line will have kittens with that lot from UK to US. That said I see Ocean Safety have a service agent not that far away. Ocean Safety aren't the cheapest as they mainly deal with commercial organisations, but do supply to the leisure industry so might be worth asking for a quote and if shipping possible.

Pete

Is why I suggested slow boat shipping, always the cheapest method

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

I would suggest comparing cost plus shipping before buying. Recently replaced our transmission, saved $500 by ordering from UK and having it shipped by slow boat compared to purchasing from U S. retailer.
UK price plus vat and shipping was roughly $1000, U.S. price $1540ish, prices before U.S. sales tax.

If you’re purchasing and shipping to outside the UK then VAT does not apply and it will be £0. Make sure you tell them to zero rate you.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I’m reading all these posts about getting rafts with up to twice the capacity of the expected crew numbers. With the greatest respect, that’s nonsense. Where regulations exist, such as SOLAS, the guideline is no more than 150% over the actual capacity, e.g. 4 people in 6 man or 3 people in 4 man.

Rafts have a huge amount of windage and no ballast and no rigid frames -

With all due respect...you are simply incorrect.

First, you are grossly misinterpreting the guideline. The specific regulation I suspect your are referring to states " Liferafts are carried with an aggregate capacity sufficient to accommodate 150 percent of the total number of persons on board." Even your own statement of "the guideline is no more than 150% over the actual capacity" imply the raft should be capable of supporting 6 people in a 4 man raft...not the other way around. But, that is not really what the SOLAS regulation states.

Second, one of the key SOLAS requirements the life raft must have a capacity of not less than 6 people.

Third, modern life rafts are not WWII era float tubes. The primary factors preventing rafts from over-turning are the ballast bags and the drogue.

Fourth, SOLAS and gov't regs specifically require life rafts to have ballast bags to prevent them from capsizing. CFR Title 46 §160.151–17 also goes into detail of ballast bags (appendages) to prevent capsize of rafts up to 10 people.

When manufacturers design rafts they are designed for maximum capacities; not some mythical minimum number of occupants. A manufacturer would never design a 4 man life raft and say you must have at least 2 occupants for safe usage...that sir, is pure nonsense.

Now, perhaps your local regulations may have some guidelines around minimum number of occupants in a life raft, but I find no such guideline in SOLAS, or in US CFR Title 46: Shipping. Subpart 160.151: Inflatable Liferafts (SOLAS) 2018.

Originally Posted by gamayun

Yes, it's a good one for basic info to know about rafts but it doesn't reflect current technology.

Agreed. There are indeed technological advances in materials and construction, but basics such as raft shape are relevant. Additionally, there is a reason why SOLAS and US CFR Title 46 §160.151–17 (Additional requirements for design and performance of SOLAS A and SOLAS B inflatable liferafts) requirements state "must have a waterplane of circular or elliptical shape. A hexagonal, octagonal, or similar outline approximating a circular or elliptical shape is acceptable."

While I have never had to abandon my own boat, or any other boat I crewed on, I did attend SERE school at Fairchild when I served in the USAF, and also attended a Safety at Sea course.

A recurring theme in these classes is found in a except from the linked article above which states, "After the pool session, we all realized that the capacity rating for life rafts resulted in sardine-like packing, with no room left for gear or supplies. Several boat owners planning to buy life rafts were thankful to realize this before they made the investment."

Ultimately, each person decides on their own personal level of comfort /confidence when making decisions about outfitting a boat for extended and/or offshore travel. Do your research, read real laws and regulations, don't rely on uninformed nonsense or hearsay from dock queens and armchair sailors, get experience (even if simulation), and make wise decisions.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

First link is a little long in the tooth.. almost twenty years ago.

Yes, the article was not intended as a reference for manufacturers, but for basic design elements in a raft and some comparisons specifically between circular and rectangular raft shapes (I'm pretty sure basic geometry hasn't changed in 20 years), but also other basic elements.

Fortunately, there have been technological advances in materials and manufacturing processes, essential/required equipment, etc, and enhanced safety features.

[donradcliffe]

I traded in a 20 year old Avon 6 man for a new Plastimo 4 man oiffshore raft. When I took the Plastimo in for its first service, the shop told me I should have stayed with the Avon.

Modern life rafts are water ballasted to HELP prevent capsizing, but still rely on crew weight. I remember stories from the Sydney Hobart disaster where the raft kept capsizing so often that they cut a hole in the bottom, which did not end well.

Locally, there were 3 people in a 4 man aircraft raft which was not big enough to keep them safe in 35-40 knots off Pt Conception. I still see the lone survivor occasionally.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Modern life rafts are water ballasted to HELP prevent capsizing, but still rely on crew weight. I remember stories from the Sydney Hobart disaster where the raft kept capsizing so often that they cut a hole in the bottom, which did not end well.

Can you please provide a reference to support the claim that crew weight is an important factor and a factor used by manufacturers in design considerations to prevent a life raft from capsizing?

WRT the 1998 Sydney Hobart race the you are referring to, I remember the story somewhat differently. Specifically it was 1 of the 2 rafts deployed from the Winston Churchill. John H. Gibson gives a detailed account of the scenario. That square raft overturned. Rather then choosing to right the raft they decided to cut a hole in the bottom to allow fresh air to enter. Sometime later a wave righted the raft and as a result of being thrown around, sea state, etc. the incision became enlarged eventually tearing away the floor and 3 of the 5 were later washed away by a large wave.

The 2nd raft from the Winston Churchill did not have ballast bags (as per the captain). It was a 4 man life raft and had 4 men. It also rolled at least twice. The testimony of Paul P. Lumtin is especially interesting. He stated the raft was poorly constructed. When asked about safety issues lacking in the life raft he stated, "...the most obvious thing is that it's definitely not a four-man life raft. Just not even nearly." "...in terms of survival on a life raft like that, we, we wouldn't have gone another day."

The 2 other vessels that deployed and evacuated crew to life rafts did not experience capsizing.

Reading the testimonies of that race provides a lot of insight and lessons that we can all learn from.

[donradcliffe]

Unfortunately, life rafts seem to be designed and regulated to rules promulgated by national authorities to protect their local manufacturers, rather than by common sense.

However, I am quite familiar with Newton's laws of motion and the dynamic stability of watercraft, and I can tell you without hesitation that if a breaking wavecrest hits a liferaft that only depends on its water ballast (250 kg by regulation) for stability it is more likely to capsize than the same liferaft with 500kg of additional crew weight.

[Clivevon]

My liferaft is a 6 man Viking RescYou Pro. I chose it because it is self-righting if it happens to inflate upside down; it has a boarding ramp making it much much easier to get on board from the water if you have to; it has an inflatable floor to provide insulation from the cold sea in cold climates; it is built of butyl rubber giving it a much longer life expectancy than say PVC, & it has a 3 year service interval.

I'm the curious type so I couldn't resist trying it out on the water once before taking it for one service (which meant extra cost refilling the CO2 bottle of course). All worked as expected which was very reassuring. Deflating & repacking it for transport to the service depot was a bit of a pain though...

Although its a 6 man because I have been known to sail with 5 on board, normally there are a maximum of 4 crew, & sometimes only 2 of us. I'm quite a big bloke & I would not want to have to get 6 people in that liferaft - especially with grab bags - so am happy I got the 6 man version.

It is though very heavy so is in a container in a strongly mounted cradle on deck which means it could be slid out of the cradle, across the deck & under the rail to go over the side if needed. No-one would actually have to pick it up. I certainly wouldnt want to have to try to lift it up from below deck, even with the adrenalin pumping. If you had a dedicated cockpit locker it might be OK in a valise I guess, which would be cheaper.

Your 2005 raft may be OK for servicing - mine is about the same age & I certainly expect to get a few more years out of it, although it has always been regularly serviced & resealed.

More info here : https://www.viking-life.com/en/yacht...llow-6-persons

I have no connection with Viking - just a satisfied customer.

Hope that helps.

[Dani-lu]

I purchased a Switlik a year ago. Expensive compared to Revere, but I believe it is a higher quality raft. Most other brand rafts (CO2 canister) need to be inspected every 2 years. Newer Switlik rafts use compressed air with a visual pressure gauge, so they need inspection every 3 years.

Talk about an emotional sale/purchase: “When you are out there at night, cold, raining, waves in your face, and you just dropped the raft over the side and just before you pull the painter to inflate It, are you going to say to yourself, boy am I glad I saved a grand or two by buying the cheaper life raft? Or are you gonna say, boy am I glad I didn’t skimp on this purchase? Then pull the painter and pray it inflates . “

[DuncanWells]

A couple of points about life rafts.

First most people have a life raft that is capable of holding many more people than ever sail on the boat. Do you need a 6 man life raft if you sail as a couple. A 4 man would do.

Second buy the best. don't get a Chinese one. I don't know where you are but life rafts from France are excellent.

Third do you need to buy? Many people are now renting. The rates are most favourable against buying new and paying for servicing.

I no longer have a permanent life raft on my Hallberg Rassy 352. I don't carry one when in the Solent and I rent when venturing across the channel etc.

Duncan Wells - Stress Free Sailing

[slug]

Originally Posted by Ded reckoner

It seems to me that Siberian Sea has given some good advice. In any case, for our recent passage from Galveston, TX to St Petersburg, FL, we purchased the 6-man Viking RescYou ISO 9650-1 ISAF offshore raft in a valise. It weighs a little over 100 pounds which could be a consideration for some. We had 3 souls on board for our recent trip, we expect we'll have 3-4 occasionally in the future, and could have 5-6 rarely. The 6-man raft should also accommodate the two ditch bags we have assembled, it might be a little sturdier and more stable than a 4-man raft, and, being a little larger, it might be a little easier to spot. Viking has a network of almost 300 service stations globally.

That is a good raft

6 or 4 man is always the question

When not on passage it's wise to store your raft down below

[johnmort]

To help you make an informed decision on buying a life raft take a safety at sea course, where you will get experience getting into a liferaft in a swimming pool plus how to turn a fliped raft the correct way up.
You will quickly understand how important it is to have a boarding platform on the entrance to a raft, just having a rope ladder is nearly next to impossible to get into a raft from the water.
Like rafts best access is from your boat, take the course and become well informed.

[Exile]

I'm in the market to replace or possibly supplement my aging Givens and so am on the fence about whether to purchase another deck-mounted or a valise. What I find somewhat baffling is that the valise ones are neither moisture nor UV resistant, or at least not resistant enough to be stored anywhere but down below. I've wondered if a sunbrella cover could be fitted but would be concerned about potential interference with the release mechanism.

It seems to me that a weather protected valise-style that is lashed on deck could be the best of all worlds, but for some reason this is clearly not what these rafts are designed/intended for. Any comments/opinions appreciated.

[atlanticvertigo]

Dear Sailor,
i had the unlucky experience to be a "user" of my liferaft for very long seven days and seven nights, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean back in 1993. If you wish you can check out the whole story visiting my site - Atlantic Vertigo -. All that i recommend you is to buy a good trade mark raft but, above all, to supervise the way it is serviced in order to be sure that the everything it is in is the one that you choosed.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Exile

I'm in the market to replace or possibly supplement my aging Givens and so am on the fence about whether to purchase another deck-mounted or a valise. What I find somewhat baffling is that the valise ones are neither moisture nor UV resistant, or at least not resistant enough to be stored anywhere but down below. I've wondered if a sunbrella cover could be fitted but would be concerned about potential interference with the release mechanism.

It seems to me that a weather protected valise-style that is lashed on deck could be the best of all worlds, but for some reason this is clearly not what these rafts are designed/intended for. Any comments/opinions appreciated.

If you lash a soft pack you may chafe thru ,deform ,crush or damage the raft
Hard case rafts only for deck storage

Soft packs for inside or protected lazzerette storage