Sailing with a Swing Keel Half Way Down?

[Ukeluthier]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Several people mention that a centerboard half-way down can affect handling. Yeah. That's the point! Sometimes you WANT it to affect the handling in a certain way.

So, absolutely nothing wrong with lowering the keel partially, assuming you understand what you are doing and why.

I used to own a San Juan 23, which is one of those keel/centerboard boats that roverhi was talking about. Depending on the point of sail I would let the keel down part-way, all the way, or not at all. This is a very common way of adjusting your boat's trim for boats with that sort of system.

Currently I own a small sailing dinghy with a swing keel. On it, too, I will put the keel down to different depths, depending on how I want to affect the boat's trim. As for the keel suddenly retracting in a knockdown... Yeah, that can happen. That can happen as easily when it is all the way down as it can when it is half-way down. When it happens I pull it back out, right the boat, and go on about my sailing. Not really a big deal, which is one of the reasons that this kind of small sailing dinghy is excellent for learning how to sail, and the various effects of sail trim and so on.

Good luck.

Absolutely!

This is one of the advantages of a centerboard or swing keel, if you know what you are doing. Having some control over the location of the center of lateral resistance is very useful.

I'm currently sailing a little 19' Menger catboat with a keel/centerboard, and anyone who has done any catboat sailing knows that centerboard manipulation is key to maintaining a manageable helm. In fairly heavy winds where the sail is a bit overpowered (and a reef or two is in order), a catboat will have an unmanageable weather helm downwind if the centerboard is all the way down. If you raise it, the center of lateral resistance moves aft, and things become copacetic unless there is way too much wind for the amount of sail you have up.

The only time the board is all the way down on my boat is going to windward in enough breeze to make drag from the additional wetted area irrelevant.

[sailersteve]

LOVE MY,Windrose 24ft by Laguna yachts. 650LB,cast iron, 6ft long swing keel ! And i never sailed it with the keel all the way down .The keel was made to thick at the front & it slowed the boat by 2/3rds speed . I just shaved that thick speed sucker to a nice smooth pointed keel. I spent hundreds of dollars & 100 HRs torch cutting & grinding 50 LBs of blunt off that keel .WHY YOU ASK ? Because i like to wash the bottom of the boat in less then 2ft of water , never get stuck,rarely use the dingy ,carry the cooler to the island & go most anywhere ! Swing keels only for this sailor !

[ctsbillc]

My Beneteau 311 sails well swing keel up or down, or anywhere in between. In Florida this is a very useful feature. On the Beneteau, it's a 300 kg cast steel wing section that pivots at the front, and this is a supplement to the main keel which is about a ton of cast steel, and I'd suggest that other boats may be different.

[Cheechako]

I think you will find it is fine halfway. You can actually adjust it up or down to correct helm. ... although it's very slight. I used to sail with mine part way down a lot, when I had a small cruiser. It's especially convenient when you run aground! just pull it up and get the heck outta there!

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Captrhino

Can anyone name a boat in the 21-28ft range with a keel that's 3ft or less while down ?


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Rhodes 22

Great little boat. Big cockpit, pretty fast for it's size and rig for a boat that can sleep two, and has lots of neat innovations that make it easy to sail and fairly comfortable as well. Easily trailored and rigged.



As for swing keel boats being POS/dangerous, that's utter nonsense as a generalization. Take Flying Scots for example. Hugely successful design that's been around for almost 50 years. Would you take it in the ocean? Hell no, but that's not what it's designed for.

[cal40john]

OP asked for draft <3' keel down. Specs I found for Rhodes says 4' keel down. To get to 3' would be a 40 degree angle on the keel (assuming pivot at waterline). I would guess that would be significant lee helm for upwind sailing.

Originally Posted by Suijin

Rhodes 22

Great little boat. Big cockpit, pretty fast for it's size and rig for a boat that can sleep two, and has lots of neat innovations that make it easy to sail and fairly comfortable as well. Easily trailored and rigged.



As for swing keel boats being POS/dangerous, that's utter nonsense as a generalization. Take Flying Scots for example. Hugely successful design that's been around for almost 50 years. Would you take it in the ocean? Hell no, but that's not what it's designed for.

[Captrhino]

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor

Good one DW!

Cap'n Rhino...

This is not what my swing keel boat looks like.... Leave your smoking jacket at home...

I'll take ya up on that offer! Haha
Trailer able boat would be cool , to eventually poke around Mobile Bay & Gulf Shores area.


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[Captrhino]

I know this is in the mono section so I might take a slammin' but would a cat better suit me for the shallower draft ?


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[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Ukeluthier

Absolutely!

This is one of the advantages of a centerboard or swing keel, if you know what you are doing. Having some control over the location of the center of lateral resistance is very useful.

I'm currently sailing a little 19' Menger catboat with a keel/centerboard, and anyone who has done any catboat sailing knows that centerboard manipulation is key to maintaining a manageable helm. In fairly heavy winds where the sail is a bit overpowered (and a reef or two is in order), a catboat will have an unmanageable weather helm downwind if the centerboard is all the way down. If you raise it, the center of lateral resistance moves aft, and things become copacetic unless there is way too much wind for the amount of sail you have up.

The only time the board is all the way down on my boat is going to windward in enough breeze to make drag from the additional wetted area irrelevant.

We've got one on our dock a few slips away.... WHAT A BEAUTY!!!

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by cal40john

OP asked for draft <3' keel down. Specs I found for Rhodes says 4' keel down. To get to 3' would be a 40 degree angle on the keel (assuming pivot at waterline). I would guess that would be significant lee helm for upwind sailing.

It's actually not that bad unless it's really blowing, in my experience. Have been out a few times on one only to realize that we left the board up for the whole trip, lol.

I think he's going to have a hard time finding anything above 20' that draws 3' or less with the centerboard down. One option would be to simply cut off a foot of the centerboard...or make a second that fits his requirements. Would be easy to retrofit.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Rhodes 22

Great little boat. Big cockpit, pretty fast for it's size and rig for a boat that can sleep two, and has lots of neat innovations that make it easy to sail and fairly comfortable as well. Easily trailored and rigged.



As for swing keel boats being POS/dangerous, that's utter nonsense as a generalization. Take Flying Scots for example. Hugely successful design that's been around for almost 50 years. Would you take it in the ocean? Hell no, but that's not what it's designed for.

Pretty SWEET lookin' POS there Suijin!

Originally Posted by sailersteve

LOVE MY,Windrose 24ft by Laguna yachts. 650LB,cast iron, 6ft long swing keel ! And i never sailed it with the keel all the way down .The keel was made to thick at the front & it slowed the boat by 2/3rds speed . I just shaved that thick speed sucker to a nice smooth pointed keel. I spent hundreds of dollars & 100 HRs torch cutting & grinding 50 LBs of blunt off that keel .WHY YOU ASK ? Because i like to wash the bottom of the boat in less then 2ft of water , never get stuck,rarely use the dingy ,carry the cooler to the island & go most anywhere ! Swing keels only for this sailor !

+1

Originally Posted by ctsbillc

My Beneteau 311 sails well swing keel up or down, or anywhere in between. In Florida this is a very useful feature. On the Beneteau, it's a 300 kg cast steel wing section that pivots at the front, and this is a supplement to the main keel which is about a ton of cast steel, and I'd suggest that other boats may be different.

+1

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I think you will find it is fine halfway. You can actually adjust it up or down to correct helm. ... although it's very slight. I used to sail with mine part way down a lot, when I had a small cruiser. It's especially convenient when you run aground! just pull it up and get the heck outta there!

Yep... during a breeze loss (girl) I think we're going backwards... (me) Uh... nooo... that's the water going forward... WE... are stationary... (her) HUH??? (me) "Click... Click... Click... (her) Oooh lookee! We're moving again!

Originally Posted by Captrhino

I'll take ya up on that offer! Haha
Trailer able boat would be cool , to eventually poke around Mobile Bay & Gulf Shores area.
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Anytime man...

Originally Posted by Captrhino

I know this is in the mono section so I might take a slammin' but would a cat better suit me for the shallower draft ?
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For low$$$ investment, you have the option
1. Small mono = dry(er)
2. Small cat = wet(ter)

[sailersteve]

With swing keel, trailerable is very nice with low center of gravity. My 24ft has single axle . I hope to trailer it south & live on it when its done ? hopefully this December . I've got absolutely no clue where south i'm going & where to live,as long as its the ocean & worm ? Saving money on lift in, lift outs , etc. trailering away from bad weather, cool,snow,ice & maybe hurricane would be a benefit of having swing keel , trailerable boat , besides the 18in draw of water . just saying .

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Captrhino

I know this is in the mono section so I might take a slammin' but would a cat better suit me for the shallower draft ?


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Probably not what you're looking for, but I've always been interested in this boat, a MacGregor 36 catamaran. Draws 2/3rds of a foot board up, 3.5' board down. Fairly high performance. Downside is 4 hours to set up as it is 18' wide when expanded.

MacgregorOwners.com

Newer lower performance would be the Corsair F24 or F27 trimarans. Supposed to be around a half hour to setup. They make higher performance boats but at a big cost.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I think he's going to have a hard time finding anything above 20' that draws 3' or less with the centerboard [all the way] down.

Agreed. If such a thing exists, I've never heard of it.

[Captrhino]

I could work with a 3.5' draft. Most others on the lake are sailing catalina 22's but their confined to a certain area of the lake and with under 3ft draft would open up more of the lake for sailing. This one would work.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/28863