Replace GPS with Tablet + software

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by daveNZ

Barnakiel, thanks for the earlier offer! Not really necessary but hey! I was just aware of the grief some forum members seem to cause each other! Moving on....

I previously wrote a list of features comparing iSailor and Navionics (I use both). See thread “iSailor or Navionics, or?” Post #32

Here’s a couple of show stoppers for me:
1. try ‘course up’ in Navionics, the chart rotates, but so do the labels!! (raster issue?)
2. You can’t display an earlier track, while recording a new one.

Indeed, sounds like an old raster graphic. Newer rasters tend to be partly 'vectorised' so that the graphics remains plain bitmap but some data is anchored at specific lat long. Now you rotate the map and the depths, names, etc will allign with the screen (or with the sensor, if on the tablet and the screen is in the free rotate mode).


Anyways, a raster map like this sounds oh so very 90'ies ...


But if you are in an area that only Navionics covers then you are sorta 'locked in'.



Cheers,
b.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Yes the screen brightness is a good point. But the rest.... resizing is not just much easier but also a magnitude faster on the iPad. With vector charts you don’t need to display two, iSailor does display AIS targets and depth on the same screen and does work with your AP (same NMEA sentences). The real problem is that you need full NMEA data on wifi. Easy fix with the Yacht Devices bridge for N2K or STNG but they also have a 0183 product that does the same

I agree on familiarity with maps. I always preferred the vector maps from Cmap and Transas because they look the same for every region and show/hide details depending on zoom level.

Well, sure, if I had NMEA over WiFi I might find a tablet more useful. But not having it isn't a "problem" for me, just a factoid... so it doesn't really need fixing.

I don't find resizing on a tablet to be any faster than our MFD. Partly because I can touch the MFD from my steering position, but I have to reach much further away to yutz around with a tablet.

When I display two charts on the plotter, it's almost always because I want to see the second chart in a different scale simultaneously. Sometimes that second chart is vector... but in general, that chart TYPE isn't the driver.

-Chris

[pa391as]

After a year of research, I selected the Ship Model multiplexer.

ShipModul Marine Electronics

Having just installed a Raymarine auto-pilot, instruments, and displays, I wanted to 1) interface the SeaTalkNG network with the NMEA0183 network that my older devices communicate (SH GS2100 and SH CPF300i), 2) broadcast all telemtry wirelessly.

The Ship Modul unit is the only single-unit multiplexer that enables bi-directional communication between both NMEA networks. All others I found only went one-way. A converter cable easily converts the physical NMEA2000 network to SeaTalkNG. They both use the same network protocol, just have different physical connectors.

Everything is working great now, and I see all data on the wireless network. Here are some pics.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Hahser

My GPS has packed up and I remember I had a crew member who brought along a laptop loaded with Navionics software.

It struck me that rather than replace the GPS I could by a tablet.

I note there are brackets and waterproof casings so it could be mounted easily in the right place.

The Navionics was better than my (rather old) Garmin - which was unrepairable.

Cost of replacement about 800 euro cost of Tablet system about 400.
Anyone comment on doing it this way?

Thanks
Hahser

If you are going to have an afternoon on the local waters then do whatever you want.

However, if you are doing a long cruise over particularly new/foreign waters then use a navigation station laptop with good software to plot your route, then expanding the view to note any hidden shallows, islets, or other hazards. Once the route is in your data base then electronically transfer the route to a portable marine GPS at the helm...that's what I do. That is the cheapest way to have a marine quality GPS at the helm displaying your planned route that you know is safe. I run both the helm GPS and the nav station laptop enroute for any details that may be necessary.

Non-marine designed navigational devices might be OK as secondary or supplementary sources but don't belong on a boat as primary instruments in my opinion. Should the worst happen, try explaining their use to the Coast Guard.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Exile]

Originally Posted by MJH

If you are going to have an afternoon on the local waters then do whatever you want.

However, if you are doing a long cruise over particularly new/foreign waters then use a navigation station laptop with good software to plot your route, then expanding the view to note any hidden shallows, islets, or other hazards. Once the route is in your data base then electronically transfer the route to a portable marine GPS at the helm...that's what I do. That is the cheapest way to have a marine quality GPS at the helm displaying your planned route that you know is safe. I run both the helm GPS and the nav station laptop enroute for any details that may be necessary.

Non-marine designed navigational devices might be OK as secondary or supplementary sources but don't belong on a boat as primary instruments in my opinion. Should the worst happen, try explaining their use to the Coast Guard.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

I'm inclined to agree, but these days there seem to be a lot of long-distance sailors out there successfully using their PCs and/or devices exclusively. There are also purpose-built, fully marinized/ruggedized/daylight readable monitors designed for use at outside helms which can repeat whatever software you prefer using on your laptop or device. This means helm access in many parts of the world to electronic Raster charts which don't suffer from some of the problems we often hear about due to insufficient zoom levels on Vector's. It also often means (often) free chart updating every time you have internet access, greater choice of (often) less expensive charts, and no obsolescence of hardware, at least from the mfg. Such marine monitors will not necessarily be any cheaper to buy than a dedicated chartplotter, but potentially offer a lot more flexibility & longevity.

As far as the ability to transfer routes from a PC or device to a helm plotter using the gpx format or otherwise, would it be safe to say that most modern, reasonably new chartplotters allow for this (whether by wifi, usb, sim card, etc.)? I know my 12 year-old Garmin's do not, but this may be more of a function of age. Apparently Furuno's do allow (older & new), along with the newer Ray's I believe. Not sure about newer B&G and Garmin. Not only is this a non-issue with a marine monitor/repeater, but you're also assured that the route transfer will appear on the exact same (updated) chart you're doing your planning on belowdecks.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by MJH

If you are going to have an afternoon on the local waters then do whatever you want.

However, if you are doing a long cruise over particularly new/foreign waters then use a navigation station laptop with good software to plot your route, then expanding the view to note any hidden shallows, islets, or other hazards. Once the route is in your data base then electronically transfer the route to a portable marine GPS at the helm...that's what I do. That is the cheapest way to have a marine quality GPS at the helm displaying your planned route that you know is safe. I run both the helm GPS and the nav station laptop enroute for any details that may be necessary.

Non-marine designed navigational devices might be OK as secondary or supplementary sources but don't belong on a boat as primary instruments in my opinion. Should the worst happen, try explaining their use to the Coast Guard.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

I agree completely with this and if you are not doing it then you are increasing your risk. In the seminar I mentioned, EVERY wreck which I describe, and ALL I've found that happened underway, were when people neglected to do this careful route planning and/or failed to follow the route they had created.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Now you’re making sense, thanks. Can you please provide a list of the critical features that a navigation app should have?

I don't have a lot of experience with too many other systems, so my list may not be comprehensive. (I am interested in other's opinions, too, I'm sure I can learn something).

But here is a basic list which I think is essential (off the top of my head):

Show chart and yacht’s position (OK, they all do these basic things)
• Display chart and show yacht’s position, heading and track
• Zoom in out, pan right, left, up down.
• One button to see right where our boat is
• Measure with cursor
• Allow selective “disappearing” of previous tracks (and bringing them back as needed)
• Information about a track (distance, time stamping, etc)
• Maximize the screen area for the chart (reduce menus, icons, boxes, etc)
Charts
• Seamlessly move from one chart to the next.
• Allow other chart formats to be inserted and still work seamlessly if the proprietary chart for a location is not the best available. This is key once you get out of the US into third world countries where the proprietary charts can be pretty terrible. I want to be able to search out a good chart for an area, even if I have to digitize it and geo-locate it myself, and add it to my chart catalog to be integrated in the charting system. Anybody who doubts this is needed has not been to Panama, Mexico, Thailand, Malaysia, Columbia, or numerous other places where the proprietary charts can be too poor to navigate on.
Waypoint Management & Route creation
• Allow creation and retention of waypoints
• Allow editing of waypoint coordinates
• Allow routes to be created using existing and “made on the fly” waypoints.
• Allow "made on the fly" waypoints to be retained and edited.
• Allow waypoint editing to shift a route (but have protection from inadvertently moving a waypoint)
• Allow insertion, deletion, and appending of waypoints in a route, reversing a route, spitting a route, combining routes.
• Information about a route (distance and bearings of legs, etc)
Export/Import
• Utilize industry common export import file formats for saving and interchangeability
• Allow planning to occur at the nav station or at home then be used on the charting system.
AIS
• Display of AIS targets on the chart with projected paths, and some control over this.
• Allow setting of CPA and TCPA alarms with reasonable logic (I don’t need to know if an AIS target will be closer than, say, 1 mile, if that isn’t going to occur for several hours. I don’t need to know that an AIS Target will be at it’s closest point to me in 30 minutes if that closest point will still be 10 miles away from me)
• Allow quick and persistent silencing of AIS Alarms. I cannot deal with a silenced alarm which springs back on in a couple of seconds because my yacht yawed away and then back into a collision course, and I cannot deal with a command sequence to turn off the AIS system which constantly is interrupted by a reoccurring alarm and has to be started over again. I need to be conning my vessel and talking to the other skipper on the radio, not continually trying to silence alarms. Yeah, I could kill AIS entirely while dealing with a potential collision situation and meanwhile another potential target sneaks up on me without an alarm because I turned off the AIS.
• Allow some level of filtering of AIS clutter
Weather/GRIB
• Allow display of GRIB and other weather information on the charting display, and ability to advance day by day

Like to have
• Proximity alarm/area exclusion
• Depth warnings
• Plug-ins for extra features
• Automatic weather routing based on imported weather information
• Combining tracks.
• Allow comments, remarks and a wide variety of symbols for each waypoint I create.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I'm also influenced by familiarity; I (much) more often use raster charts, anyway... and C-Map vector charts a bit... and the Transas vector charts, still new to me, look a little weird. I'll likely get used to that if I keep working with it...

Heh... Yesterday on our short trip, I noticed (discovered?) the tablet wifey was using is optimized for portrait mode relative to (my) polarized sunglasses. Charts weren't easily visible in landscape mode.

That happened to be with iSailor... but it'd be the same with other app charts, too.

Didn't really affect me, but wifey said she preferred landscape mode... and it was OK for her since she didn't have polarized eyeglasses on at the time.

Our installed plotter is the opposite; in it's upright position, it's good for polarized eyeglasses.

-Chris

[thedoublee]

I too am currently running the free trial of Navionics Boating app with charts on an Ipad2 and spent the weekend out on the water playing with it. i like it so far except for one annoying issue - my vessel position updates in a jerky fashion and the course vector flips all over the place at times. Is there some setting I am missing here?

[magentawave]

Is anyone having problems with Navionics on their iPad showing the wrong mileage and plotting courses that cross OVER land masses?

I'm asking because I have plotted numerous test courses (automatic and manual) from Avalon, Catalina Island to Mariners Basin in Mission Bay, San Diego and Navionics shows the mileage in the top right and bottom right of screen as only 21 NM when it's actually about 64 NM. (For a split second it shows the actual miles before settling on the bogus miles.)

The other issue is when I let Navionics plot an automatic course from just outside Santa Barbara harbor to Yellowbanks, Santa Cruz island it has me going over part of the island! Yet, when I do an automatic course from SB harbor to an anchorage around the corner from Yellowbanks on the south side of SC island it does NOT have me crossing land.

I'm using a cellular iPad 5 with no sim card with the latest operating system and latest version of Navionics. I contacted tech support at Navionics a week ago and they have no answer as to why this is happening.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

Even Apple, usually years behind the technological curve, are migrating to USB-C with their latest devices.

I agree that, in an ideal world, USB-c would be a great way to connect, but I suspect that it’s just too overspecced and too delicate for the marine environment.

Don’t know about “latest” though, I’ve been using USBC-only Mac devices for over four years... that’s the only data connector I have on my nav station for everything (although I have plenty of plain USB charging sockets)

[raffo5]

Originally Posted by magentawave

Is anyone having problems with Navionics on their iPad showing the wrong mileage and plotting courses that cross OVER land masses?

I'm asking because I have plotted numerous test courses (automatic and manual) from Avalon, Catalina Island to Mariners Basin in Mission Bay, San Diego and Navionics shows the mileage in the top right and bottom right of screen as only 21 NM when it's actually about 64 NM. (For a split second it shows the actual miles before settling on the bogus miles.)

The other issue is when I let Navionics plot an automatic course from just outside Santa Barbara harbor to Yellowbanks, Santa Cruz island it has me going over part of the island! Yet, when I do an automatic course from SB harbor to an anchorage around the corner from Yellowbanks on the south side of SC island it does NOT have me crossing land.

I'm using a cellular iPad 5 with no sim card with the latest operating system and latest version of Navionics. I contacted tech support at Navionics a week ago and they have no answer as to why this is happening.

I've heard that some Apple devices have problems with built in GPS. You can find several discussions about it online. When it happens, try opening another app and check if the problem is on both apps or only with Navionics. However I use Aqua Map which can receive all NMEA data from the wifi and use them. Never had a problem.

[moseriw]

First: Never rely on GPS as the only source - Open your eyes!
Second: The built in GPS of mobiles rely on a Differential GPS as a mixture of Global Satellites an the radio antennas of the mobile radio system


Third: even the profession on board gps sytems may fail when the direct view of the satellites is disturbed due to heavy weather - especially due to thunderstorms.

Fourth: udoubtfully one shall buy 1,2, 0r 3 cheap notebooks or 2in1's instead of a chart plotter for USD 1000++

[davenrino]

Originally Posted by raffo5

I've heard that some Apple devices have problems with built in GPS. You can find several discussions about it online. When it happens, try opening another app and check if the problem is on both apps or only with Navionics. However I use Aqua Map which can receive all NMEA data from the wifi and use them. Never had a problem.

My non-cellular iPad and/or laptop with Navionics are backups to my plotter. They are connected to my InReach or Bad Elf which are way more accurate than an iPad cellular gps chip.

[Delta sailor]

If I was starting from scratch- rudimentary understanding of dead reckoning navigation, older chartplotters, basic subscription to navionics, and downloaded open cps but never used on a trip... Where and what would be a good tutorial/educational source to educate myself of all the potential combinations, pros and cons, etc of the vast array of navigational tools. I mostly coastal sail the east coast and have Maptech charts, a compass, ruler, binoculars, and an out of date garmin echo map that still works. Trying to educate myself for the next step!