Please critique my cat ketch thoughts

[Montanan]

And enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD8sEd4LwGA

[SteveSadler]

A cat ketch has a distinctive personality, if thats what you're looking for, great!
If you want a boat that's easy to single hand and sail safely across oceans, comfortable, dry, fast, spacious, proven, with all the latest electronics, I'd opt for an ex charter boat, 8 yrs old, aesthetically challenged, but well outfitted, including a tender, motor, and everything a charter boat charters with.

[fourlyons]

Yeah, maybe.

In 2009 I helped to deliver a 50' 2003 Bene from Tortola to Annapolis. The boat was leaving the charter service, they told us it had been inspected and was ready to go. The charging system failed three days out, the luff of the main started tearing out on the fourth. On the fifth, while close reaching into short steep seas, one skin fitting in each of the three forward heads, each 1 1/2", snapped off within minutes of each other. We were lucky to have enough tapered bungs aboard to plug them. The next day the auto pilot drive started failing, fortunately there were three of us to hand steer the next two days.

I'll take the cat ketch.

[rhubstuff]

I own and sail a Sea Pearl 28. The cat ketch rig with un-stayed masts was a revelation for me after 60 years of sailing. No, she won't quite go to weather with a hot racing machine, but she will balance perfectly under any point of sail except dead downwind. All steering except tacking and jibing is done by using the jib and main sheets and the centerboard. She will sail for hours unattended while I read, cook, catnap, fuss with the varnish, or whatever. The point of the split rig/centerboard configuration is that the CE/CLR relationship is virtually infinitely adjustable. Setting sail, I set the mizzen first and sheet it in hard. The boat will sit there head to wind all day. Then I set the main, backwind it to starboard or port, and I'm off! Hard on the wind, centerboard down, I trim the main for the conditions (more or less outhaul on the loose-footed sails according the the sail chord I want) with the boom just inboard of the lee rail, then trim the mizzen so she balances. The mizzen likes to carry a bit of a luff about half way up, again according outhaul tension. Dead downwind, with the centerboard up except a foot or so to act as a skeg, I trim the main in a bit and ease the mizzen sheet all the way out, boom at right angles to the boat--way out there! The mizzen drives the boat (love that huge roach), the skeg keeps her headed downwind, and the mainsheet trim keeps her from rounding up. Course changes are done with the main sheet, in or out a little. I also set an old Sunfish sail as a mizzen stays'l in light air. In heavier gusts, the mast tips bend a bit and spill the wind off the upper part of the sails. She will find her own way through variable winds, coming up in the puffs and heading off a bit in the lulls. Since I can sail all day without using the tiller very much, the rudder remains amidships most of the time, increasing speed. All of the above makes me wonder why long-distance cruisers spend thousands of dollars on generators, wind turbines, solar cells, batteries, wires, and controllers, just to have enough power to run their autopilots, dragging the rudder from side to side, instead of sailing a boat that will balance herself naturally in most conditions. I've owned or professionally skippered, sloops, cutters, ketches, schooners, and a barkentine, but my favorite rig is a cat ketch with un-stayed carbon fiber masts. She will teach you how to sail, instead of how to steer.

[Scaramanga F25]

Really. Would you buy an eight-year-old rental car, 4-year-old???

[Bill O]

Always liked the cat ketch rig for its simplicity and offshore sailing ability.
Tanton also made a cat ketch, but don't see that many these days for sale.
Here is a link to a Freedom 40 CC for sale. IMO somewhat reasonably priced as they already changed the aluminum masts for carbon. This one has the hard top and is good real estate for a nice solar farm.

It's the "pirate ship" looking model that Montanan previously linked a the video

[cwc]

Thanks for all the replies! I’ve got a lot to think about now.

[gulfcoastsailor]

Without having seen the boat in person and relying on the pictures it looks like a tremendous opportunity. Suggestion: join up at freedom Yachts.org. That’s where you’ll find most people with experience on this boat type. By the way, I am in the freedom believer from way back.

[SV__Grace]

I have a ketch, and have had a cat (nonsuch), so I have a couple of thoughts for you-

1. Catboats typically have one huge sail, which can be a challenge to single hand without electric winches. They are easy to sail and reef, but the huge, long wishbone boom (in older models) is very heavy and combined with the wider, flatter bottom of of nonsuch, contributes to rolling downwind and in cross swells. This is fine for coastal recreational use but I wouldn't recommend for offshore. A cat ketch, if you can find one, might be easier to handle and perform better, but it would have to be a big one (60+ feet) for me to want to go offshore in it.

2. Ketches tend to be easier to sail, especially single handed, and have a more flexible sail plan, which is spread the length of the boat, so your individual sails are typically shorter and smaller and therefore easier to handle. Instead of 2 huge tall sails (main and jib/genoa) you have at least 3, usually 4 (jib, staysail, main, mizzen). In heavy weather it's common for ketches to sail with a staysail and mizzen, nicely balanced. I use my mizzen as a built in riding sail at anchor and it works well (@ halfway deployed and tightly sheeted).

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by AiniA

They only built six of them, but the Nereus is a gorgeous boat. There is even one for sale. More expensive than Freedom but much nicer boats. It is like a 40' Nonsuch and also beamy so a lot of volume.
https://www.unitedyacht.com/used-yac...aramba-2767355

Caramba has sold. I'm heading to New Bern at the end of the week to bring her to her new home for the buyer. She'll be named Serenity and sailing Chesapeake Bay. Happy to provide feedback but someone will have to remind me on the 13th or 14th.

[tangara]

This is my Cat Ketch 37 design by Yves Marie Tanton.
And is for sales

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Caramba has sold. I'm heading to New Bern at the end of the week to bring her to her new home for the buyer. She'll be named Serenity and sailing Chesapeake Bay. Happy to provide feedback but someone will have to remind me on the 13th or 14th.

Of course she sold. Seemed like a good boat at a good price. Are you the seller or just the deliverer? May you be lucky enough to catch some southerly breeze. Saturday doesnt look like a winner here in Maryland...

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

In 2009 I helped to deliver a 50' 2003 Bene from Tortola to Annapolis. The boat was leaving the charter service, they told us it had been inspected and was ready to go. The charging system failed three days out, the luff of the main started tearing out on the fourth. On the fifth, while close reaching into short steep seas, one skin fitting in each of the three forward heads, each 1 1/2", snapped off within minutes of each other. We were lucky to have enough tapered bungs aboard to plug them. The next day the auto pilot drive started failing, fortunately there were three of us to hand steer the next two days.

What has any of that got to do with the rig?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Of course she sold. Seemed like a good boat at a good price. Are you the seller or just the deliverer? May you be lucky enough to catch some southerly breeze. Saturday doesnt look like a winner here in Maryland...

I'm delivery skipper for owner-aboard move. I start real weather analysis tomorrow morning - my confidence more than four day out is low. Quick look shows we should be dry with moderate westerlies the whole way as long as we don't get held up with a problem somewhere. Westerlies on the ICW are great. We might save half a day going offshore but could as easily lose a day. Final decision at the mouth of the Neuse River - turn left or right. If the forecast holds up we may sail a lot, topography permitting.

[Mag3]

that sure is one sweet looking boat... doesn't look to beat up as well for it's age.. i think you have a winner!

and i grew up sailing on a cat schooner (bill garden designed 32' boat)... similar.. sailed to wind quite well!