Island Packet 420 - Opinions?

[jimp1234]

I'm interested in the Island Packet 420. Any opinions on the boat? (Btw, no need for comments of the "Island Piglet" variety as I'm aware of the boats deficiencies in light air, docking, etc.) Any owner comments? Anything to watch out for when boat shopping this model? TIA

-Jim

[a64pilot]

The weak link of most IP's is the tanks and chainplates. It may be that the later models have plastic tanks I don't know, chainplates time out at about 15 yrs.
I know of no other problems with an IP, however I have no real issue docking mine, at first I thought about a bow thruster but have decided I don't need the additional expense and something else to maintain.
I am sure a fin keel will turn much sharper, but the full keel has other advantages that I like.
Most don't realize an IP has a spade rudder.
A big reason I like an IP is a solid glass hull, and the deck cannot absorb moisture, in comparison the chainplates are nothing to a wet deck for me.

I have an older 38

[mogulskibum]

Replacing the chainplates in some IPs is a very big, and very expensive process. If you are seriously looking at a particular one, inquiries about if, when, and by whom they were replaced should be made.

And it they haven't been replaced, put it into the budget. Consider replacing them with titanium if it ends up being something you have to do.

[Frankly]

I suspect that by the time the 420s came along IP had switched to 316L SS for chainplates making them a non issue. If the ship has aluminum water and holding tanks then this might be a concern (particularly the holding tank). When the FDA finally approved a resin for potable water, they started making the water tanks out of FG. The tank construction will be obvious when you look below the cabin sole.

I have owned two different mfg's sailboats and sailed on many others. If you are going to cruise then the IP is hard to beat in MO. Just a lot of good thinking and construction in Bob Johnson's ships.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Frankly

I suspect that by the time the 420s came along IP had switched to 316L SS for chainplates making them a non issue. If the ship has aluminum water and holding tanks then this might be a concern (particularly the holding tank). When the FDA finally approved a resin for potable water, they started making the water tanks out of FG. The tank construction will be obvious when you look below the cabin sole.

I have owned two different mfg's sailboats and sailed on many others. If you are going to cruise then the IP is hard to beat in MO. Just a lot of good thinking and construction in Bob Johnson's ships.

I sold a set of titanium chainplates to a IP with 7 year old 316L (Labratory tested after replacement). 316L helps, but not much.

[Frankly]

My original 304s are now 26 YO. I think about changing them out from time to time but have kept them well sealed and correctly tensioned. So I roll the dice and sail on.

I discussed the alloy selection with two recognized US Navy Corrosion Experts. Both agreed the failure mode was most likely weld decay with the 304 and 316L should last a lot longer than me. Even an IP will not last forever.

[rotrax]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Most don't realize an IP has a spade rudder.

The two I have owned-a 1999 350 and a 2007 SP Cruiser both had-have in the case of the SP Cruiser as we are still enjoying her-have supported rudders. The bottom rudder bearing is on the weed shoe. The SP Cruiser is not so robust as the 350 due to the rudder position and the length and size of the weed shoe.

Neither can be considered a spade rudder IMHO.

I have just checked the iphomeport. The model brouchures clearly show the rudders on the IP38 and the IP420 as supported rudders with a bottom bearing in the weed shoe.

[bsurvey]

bullet proof boat an can take a real beating but will bring you home alive

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rotrax

The two I have owned-a 1999 350 and a 2007 SP Cruiser both had-have in the case of the SP Cruiser as we are still enjoying her-have supported rudders. The bottom rudder bearing is on the weed shoe. The SP Cruiser is not so robust as the 350 due to the rudder position and the length and size of the weed shoe.

Neither can be considered a spade rudder IMHO.

I have just checked the iphomeport. The model brouchures clearly show the rudders on the IP38 and the IP420 as supported rudders with a bottom bearing in the weed shoe.

Being supported at the bottom, doesn't mean they're not spades.

The key thing is that there is no skeg, and they are balanced. Very clever design in my opinion.

[angelfish2]

Originally Posted by jimp1234

I'm interested in the Island Packet 420. Any opinions on the boat? (Btw, no need for comments of the "Island Piglet" variety as I'm aware of the boats deficiencies in light air, docking, etc.) Any owner comments? Anything to watch out for when boat shopping this model? TIA

-Jim

Jim, I would not worry over much about the chain plates on a 3 digit Island Packet. Those of us who have the 2 digit variety should be a whole more concerned. If I were to cross oceans with my IP, I definitely would have the chain plates changed.

Now, the tanks (particularly the holding tank) should be changed if they are aluminum. We changed ours to plastic, along with all the hoses. We still have an aluminum water tank and that is on the "some day" list.

I think you will love the 420. Not only are they beautiful, but they also sail very well. BTW, if anyone tells you they don't sail well upwind, our little 32's "sweet spot" is 40 degrees. She does real well at 35 degrees, as well.

Have fun shopping! After all, the hunt is the most fun!

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by rotrax

The two I have owned-a 1999 350 and a 2007 SP Cruiser both had-have in the case of the SP Cruiser as we are still enjoying her-have supported rudders. The bottom rudder bearing is on the weed shoe. The SP Cruiser is not so robust as the 350 due to the rudder position and the length and size of the weed shoe.

Neither can be considered a spade rudder IMHO.

I have just checked the iphomeport. The model brouchures clearly show the rudders on the IP38 and the IP420 as supported rudders with a bottom bearing in the weed shoe.

Well your choices are basically barn door (full), skeg hung, transom/outboard, and skeg. It's not one of the first three and it is from a function perspective most similar to a spade, so I'd go with that.

[a64pilot]

OK respectfully, 316L is not much better than 304 in this case. It's not at the welds that they fail, but if kept well sealed, then they should last a long time, but in my case who knows if they were kept sealed or not? Add in they can't realistically be inspected and your back to the only way to know for sure is to start with new.
It is a Spade rudder.
The chain plate replacement is really not that big a deal, not cheap but done so often now it's a solved issue. $10K, just figure it into the purchase price on a boat over say 15 yrs old. My originals are now 30 yrs old, at 28 I made a stupid mistake and got knocked down, Genoa fully in the water and they didn't break, but I'm starting my new career cruising so I'm having them replaced. Largely due to Stumble I'm having them made from grade 5 Ti, they will certainly outlast me. The Ti was a lot more affordable than I thought.
My 38 sails happily at 30 degrees true, but that's it, she loves 60 degrees, I can count on half wind speed til 7 kts, she has broken 8, but that was likely with some current.
Waste tank on my 38 is literally a 30 min job, that is all it took, water tank I think is as a big a job as chainplates are.

[Ip485]

Obviously a great supporter as a 485 owner, which of course I love.

There are two island packet forums State side based that are a wonderful source of information for everything IP with a host of type specific information and data so I would definitely have a good review of the information on each of those.

As others have said the build quality is generally excellent and there are few issues other than those mentioned possibly regarding the chain plates and I know from the forum some generic concern about the exhaust elbow on many a Yanmah that can be fatal to the engine should it fail.

Most of the parts come form the usual parts bins, so spares are readily available with the exception of some IP specific parts (which are few).

As a live-aboard or part live-aboard cruiser you will find all the IPs wonderfully comfortable and sea kindly, and all the comments about up wind performance grossly exaggerated of course albeit you will shed a little speed in exchange for comfort and sea kindliness.

[rostyvyg]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The weak link of most IP's is the tanks and chainplates. It may be that the later models have plastic tanks I don't know, chainplates time out at about 15 yrs.

Well, this is an answer I got from Island Packet customer service when I inquired about IP 420 chainplates: "The company changed where they sourced the chain plates after 1996. They got them from Garhouer after 1996. When they started to make them they used 316 stainless (prior was 304) There has never been a reported failure from the boats that had the new style in them, After 1998 they used the 316L, which means that the metal is then annealed. A process for making it more durable and there has never been a recorded failure. "

[a64pilot]

The L is not heat treat level, it is a different alloy that is better for welding, and is likely the best pick from SS to make welded chain plates from.
https://www.thebalance.com/type-316-...-steel-2340262

However bedding any type of SS in anything that deprives it from oxygen, will cause problems, the 316L is better in that respect than 304, but still susceptible.
If I were to spend that kind of money on a boat, I'd replace the chainplates at about the 15 yr mark with Titanium and be done with it.
I am having that done in a month in my boat, however they are 304, and 30 yrs old and have not yet failed.
It's a matter of risk in my mind, even with a low probability of failure, the consequences of failure are so high that I would replace them.
Sort of like wearing seat belts, never needed them since my 20's, but wear them anyway, cause the consequences of not are so bad.