Marital counseling

[boatman61]

Suggest you convince him to buy the smaller boat you like now.... you know its small, but.. you can experience the live aboard experience for what it is while in Dubai... and get some sailing in.
Your doing it for HIM really.. this way you make sure he has a nice boat.. keeps his finances secure for you and the kids.. gets some racing in while he's still got some balls..
Then.. when the time is right you've a lovely boat to trade in for the 60ftr..
Obviously you'll suffer.. maintaining etc while he's at work all the time...

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

I am getting the point that this was an inappropriate place to discuss this. For that I apologize. Beginners mistake I guess.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

NOT inappropriate at all. This kind of thing is a big issue with many.

In fact, kudos for being gutsy enough to bring it up.

What you will find is that there all kingpds of answers for all kinds of people.

Talking this over allows you to "try on" different view point to see how they fit.

Some recommend just splitting and moving on. That works well for some, it's not an option for my wife and I. We are wired differently. But just knowingly that took a lot of pain.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

He wants a boat full of electronics and I am starting to think I want a boat more like a hans Christian that is more stable in rough weather. He wants a spinnaker and the ability to race. I want peace and quiet. Is there no happy medium?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Far as I'm concerned the idera size of a sailboat FOR A COUPLE is around 46-48'. Now that is a fairly big boat, but after that size a couple gains nothing far as the boat goes as larger boats use the extra space for guest berthing mainly.

I bet for the cost of a 60 footer you could have both a nice 48' boat for cruising and a J-Boat for racing

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

I am getting the point that this was an inappropriate place to discuss this. For that I apologize. Beginners mistake I guess.

I don't consider it inappropriate at all.

We are in a similar situation -- the youngest of our 5 children will not be out of high school for another 10 years, and so there will be at least 14 until he is out of college. I have been sailing my whole life and my wife has grown to love it too. We both want to do extended cruising when we retire, but realistically that won't be for at least another decade.

No one knows what lies ahead, and it would be a shame to postpone one's dream only to discover one is no longer healthy enough to live it. So we upgraded our boat now and use it whenever we can. We are fortunate that my wife can take off 12 weeks a year from work, and we spend most of them cruising. Of course, we spend weekends in the summer on the boat too. In the off season, I sail the boat to warmer climates where she joins me for a week or two at a time. Right now our boat is in St. Martin and my inlaws are boat-sitting until we can return to it.

I guess my message is this: don't wait, find a way to do it now, even if it is only part-time.

With respect to size, if you haven't owned boats before, and finances are potentially an issue, go smaller rather than larger. The costs of operating and maintaining a larger boat are significant.

Another important point is that if you don't have a lot of experience cruising, expect that your tastes and desires in a boat will change as you get more experience. Don't expect to go from no-boat to final-boat in one step.

Lastly, the choice of boat is a great opportunity to reinforce your relationship -- to do something together that allows and requires communication, understanding, and compromise. My wife and I are very happy, not only with our boat, but with the process of selecting it together.

[brookiesailor]

This thread did help me. I have decided to get all my ducks in a row, then present it and suggest a plan and a time frame (this year) I have asked for information from the builders and need that for the presentation. I forgot that tomorrow is still the weekend for the rest of you so my presentation might have to wait for Monday or Tuesday but it will happen this week. I am giving him the options of two boats a hans Christian 48t and the passport vista 515. I need a price sheet for the HC, and spec sheet. I have all the info on the passport. That way we can come up with a plan together.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[skipmac]

Hi Brookie,

First, I apologize if my initial, flip comment put you off. The issue is a very common one and very appropriate to cruising. That being said I would take with a grain of salt all advise (including mine because as Ann Cate points out, we all bring our own baggage to the discussion) you get from this or any other public forum.

One question. It isn't completely clear but from the context of your questions it sounds like you (the plural you) are shopping for a new boat? If so, maybe consider one just a few years old. The depreciation is typically huge on sailboats so your SO could get more boat and still have a nice chunk of change left over to bank for the college fund.

Please note that you shouldn't think you are settling for less quality or questionable condition buying a used boat. New ones always come with their own issues and I have read of buyers spending months and months sorting out problems with new boats. A used boat has already been through the debugging process so may in fact be less work than a new one.

Regarding how to deal with this in the context of your relationship, that only you can decide. How important is the relationship vs your desire to go cruising? How much do you feel that you were deceived or short changed by the failure of your SO to follow the initial plan? What truly is going on with your SO that has caused him to change the plan? Is it time for you to make this a major issue, even a relationship deal breaker? Very serious questions and again, only you can make the decisions.

The best of luck dealing with this. Hope it sorts out and we see you on the water one day soon.

[Tbrad]

Hmm. Just think of all the fun you could have had over the last few years on a Hunter or Bene or Catalina while he made up his mind on the BIG boat!

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

I am getting the point that this was an inappropriate place to discuss this. For that I apologize. Beginners mistake I guess.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Not necessarily, Brookie. You came to a place where you figured (rightly so) there was a high probability that you would find other people who have dealt with a same or similar situation. And so you have.

I agree with Weavis, and with others, who have pointed out that bouncing the subject around in a forum can often give you insights that may help you clarify your thinking, or cause you to consider things that you either not considered before, or had considered but didn't really want to examine too closely for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by weavis

For me, it doesnt matter what the issue is, boating, flying or origami, it comes down to the simple fact that an agreement was made. Both agreed to it.

If the one member keeps changing the criteria, and the other side has fulfilled their part of the bargain, and put in a few extra years, then Im sorry, there is a major problem with honesty and reliability in the marriage.
.

Weavis, in theory I agree with you (and Robert Sailor) 100%. Trust is absolutely paramount in a marriage. If you don't feel you can rely on your partner's word, there's not much of a foundation for a solid relationship there, IMHO. Especially when you're entering into a cruising partnership where the ability to work through things as a unit, and trust each other means everything.

However, that being said.....as I said we still only get a very limited amount of information on which to base our sage marital advice (which not only impacts the lives and marriage of a couple, but also their children.) This is sacred ground and needs to be tread on carefully.

This situation has been going on for over 5 years, during which time I'll bet Brookie and her SO have probably had hundreds, if not thousands, of conversations about this and a hundred other subjects which likely affected this decision either directly or indirectly. We were privy to exactly 0% of those conversations. And as hpeer so correctly stated....

Originally Posted by hpeer

..... despite best intentions people and situations change. Often the change is for the better, but it sure can upset the apple cart. Folks need to be flexible if you want to stay together.

Accomplice and Skipmac brought up some great points. Maybe the only answer to your situation that will preserve your marriage, if that is your desire, and give you both a bit of what you want, is compromise on both parts. A smaller boat on his part so that you can have what he has promised you NOW, and maybe entering into the cruising lifestyle part time on your part so that he can continue with what he feels is important to him as well.

My husband and I ended up delaying our full time cruising life until our retirement (which is coming up shortly now, thankfully). This would not be an acceptable solution for many people, and there is a huge part of me that really envies those who have cut the dock lines early, gotten out there and enjoyed the life in their young years, despite often substantial sacrifice.

It doesn't have to be a 100% either/or situation. We never delayed owning a boat or sailing. We bought our first sailboat in our third year of marriage, 33 years ago, and have very rarely been without one since. We've lived aboard for a number of years and we have enjoyed many years of local cruising in a variety of places. Our kids and grand kids were a part of that with us. It has been a wonderful life enriching, bonding experience for us, not just as a couple, but as a family.

[garrobito]

..When I had 30, I love the 60'.. I fact, I own a couple.. fast, space.. a lot of goodies inside...
But now I do not want to fight with a heavy main, a spectacular code 0, a big jib... with a wife without too much experience sailing and a baby, I scaled down to a more manageable 40-ish...
If your thinking about sail just you and your husband, a 40/50 is simply perfect.. even for occasional family meeting (when boys go to school, they back less and less to home).
And men (specially sailor) are always like that.. if you have a 40, want a 50; if you want a 12" chartplotter, want a 19" "glass bridge" system... My wife always say.. men never grown up, just change they're toys... I agree with that statement..
Good luck!

[Cheechako]

I think your instincts are good and that is too much boat. Fine in fair weather and not fine in heavy weather. At 5-9 and 160# I had a lot of trouble controlling things in 30-35 knots of wind on a Passport 47.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

Weavis, in theory I agree with you (and Robert Sailor) 100%. Trust is absolutely paramount in a marriage. If you don't feel you can rely on your partner's word, there's not much of a foundation for a solid relationship there, IMHO. Especially when you're entering into a cruising partnership where the ability to work through things as a unit, and trust each other means everything.

Its not a theory. Its what it is, a principle to live by. NOw each marriage is based on different criteria and its not for me to get in the middle of that. What I do see is that an agreement was reached and worked on and now its all for nothing. Make me live somewhere for five years and then renege and you will not see my tail for dust.

I dont see that one person changing the established agreement given the magnitude of it, AND that the other person has not changed their criteria or if they see the necessity to adapt to a new and pressing circumstance change is fair. I dont believe honesty is at the centre of this discussion. BOTH persons have to agree to changing something that they had a pact on. If they dont, he owes her the agreed price.

Now I dont really have a dog in this race. ITs not my marriage. Im an observer and I see things that make me me go hmmmm.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by brookiesailor

First is I am tired of waiting,

Give him the flick and go do it yourself. If you wait for someone else you will never do it.


Mark

[sanibel sailor]

No marital advice from me; I have not yet sorted this all out for myself.

There is a fine book by Don Casey called Sensible Cruising: the Thoreau Approach, that suggests that doing things now on a simpler level is better than planning the Grand Adventure for "some day".

Have you considered getting a small manageable boat just for yourself? Skills and attitudes learned now will pay big dividends later and may provide a motivator for reflection by your spouse. You may also discover you hate cruising, which is financially better on a small scale than large.

[a64pilot]

All I'll say is be wary of martial advice from divorced people, particularly ones that have had multiple marriages. It's sort of like legal advice from a convicted felon


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[JPA Cate]

brookie

Sorry for being abrupt with you. I tend to be a confrontational sort of person. What I meant was that if you're feeling like he's manipulating you all the time, this is an issue a marital counselor can help with. However, counseling isn't for everyone.

I liked the suggestion Boatman61 offered you in his post #16, and I think skipmac and Becky have made some good input.

If there really is a pattern of promise and reneg in your relationship, I bet your spouse just thinks you're a good wifey, going along with all his plans, after all he's the leader, and that's his rightful place.

If that sentence makes you grate your teeth and steam come out of your ears, it probably is an entrenched pattern, and while you're considering what you want to do about that, I think the best thing is for you to get a small boat now, 36 or so, and take the kids out sailing whenever you want. Consider it an interim plan, one where you educate yourself (thereby building confidence), skipper your own boat, and see what the future holds.

The general thrust of this argument is that you get back in control of your own life, and make decisions according to your own values.

At some point, the issues and their ramifications are likely to be too personal for forum discussion.

Ann

PS, there's a really nice HC 43 for sale in Brisbane, Queensland, PM me if you're interested.