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Patrigo · 12-11-2022, 03:34

Phil Clough. I reckon you should buy a caravan, and use it in the Sahara. No water there to worry you.

Bowdrie · 12-11-2022, 19:35

Back in the middle/late '80s I went to look at an unfinished boat that was in a nearby yard, (and for sale).
The hull, deck, bulkheads, sole, ballast, and engine install were all finished.
It was a cutter, ~40', designed by noted designer Eva Hollmann, perhaps some of you guys remember "Sunset Boulevard", which won its class in a Transpac, or the FD12, a 50' cruiser.
Anyway, she actually had built the boat herself, and it was unsinkable.
It was laid-up with alternating layers of fiberglass and foam.
IIRC, the hull was ~3>4 inches thick, depending upon location.
She had calculated that the fully flooded boat would float with ~24 inches of remaining freeboard, (depending on the weight of "stuff" that was loaded aboard).
Great boat, and the insulative qualities would be unmatched.
Wish I could have bought it.

davil · 18-11-2022, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think an auto-inflatable balloon is the answer. If you carry a couple helium tanks you can probably lift up high enough to not get touched by those 30’ waves either and possibly float through the air back home to dry land

======================================

unrelated to the original poster, but a question I have, when I started to venture cruising and offshore sailing was how to keep my boat floating in case of catastrophic water intrusion (like collision) considering the collective consensus is better to remain with the sailboat than a liferaft (that I carry) for all the reasons we know while waiting for a rescue IF there is a rescue as an option.

the idea of increasing buoyancy seems a good alternative to a water tight area not easily available in many production boats.

recently seen the price of coastal life rafts in valise prompted my attention.

Inflating one inside an already smaller self-contained area like the vberth?, an after berth?

A smallish boat like mine should be enough to provide enough buoyancy to remain in the boat? and postponing the launching of the liferaft?

In any case, not ready for that "solution"? just continue discussing the possibilities of "crazy ideas"

Peace

rhubstuff · 18-11-2022, 09:52

If you're in a survival situation (30 foot waves?) your best bet is a life raft or gumby suit and an EPIRB. Forget about the boat. Your rescue will be by helicopter and no one will want to tow your boat to shore because it has no value except to you. The best place for your boat after the helicopter takes you to shore is on the bottom of the sea where it won't become a floating hazard and get run into by another vessel or wash up on some beach.

Rumrace · 18-11-2022, 10:20

Typical Jedi Knight stuff. Power boats by nature have a separate engine room and bilge.
I don’t see your point though. If you’ve sunk you’ve sunk the boats a write off 110’ down or 10’. Boston Whalers when then get water between the mould the flotation foams turns to junk.
My first two boats were Woodies. Woodies you make water tight with water. You soak them in slings for at least two days for the wood to puff up. Sealed.
Airbags are awesome the scuba shop has 6 in stock and they are not for sale. 2 will pick up a commercial 3/4 pick up. In side a boat it will crush everything in its path. The operate on ordinary compressed scuba tanks 80cu 3,000 psi. Very Jedi gear

ItDepends · 18-11-2022, 10:32

Water tight bulkheads WORK if properly designed. They can keep a boat afloat in extreme situations. They might not ALWAYS work, if you rip off a keel, or rip a 7 meter hole down the side, but under most failure modes they can save the boat, and (maybe) your life.

Of course few production boats are built with anything other than a "crash bulkhead" forward, and it is almost a practical impossibility to retrofit them to an existing design.

Our fully ballasted monohull boat has: A water tight anchor chain locker; A watertight bulkhead (with watertight door) between the forward cabin and main stateroom; A water tight engine room; A watertight bulkhead with watertight door between the main saloon and aft cabin; A water tight bulkhead between the aft storage lazerette and the aft cabin. That's SIX separate compartments.

The boat will float with any TWO flooded. If the forward cabin is flooded and the watertight door closed to the main cabin, the boat sits 10 deg down by the bow.

ItDepends · 18-11-2022, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubstuff

If you're in a survival situation (30 foot waves?) your best bet is a life raft or gumby suit and an EPIRB. Forget about the boat. Your rescue will be by helicopter and no one will want to tow your boat to shore because it has no value except to you. The best place for your boat after the helicopter takes you to shore is on the bottom of the sea where it won't become a floating hazard and get run into by another vessel or wash up on some beach.

This is the WORST advice I have seen on this forum in a long time, and that's saying something.

Anyone who thinks that the best plan is survival weather conditions is to "forget the boat" and jump into a liferaft, I KNOW for an absolute fact has never actually been in a liferaft, and has done no serious research on the topic at all. The smallest, least capable, ocean going sailboat is ALWAYS a better survival platform than a liferaft.

Read the books "Fastnet Force 10" and "Rescue in the Pacific." Pay special attention to the far too frequent cases of crews who abandoned the mothership for the liferaft where the yacht was found afloat after the storm passed, and the crew was never heard from again.

If your boat is floating, and not on fire, DO NOT launch the liferaft, much less get into it. You do NOT abandon ship when it is uncomfortable, or scary, or wet. You abandon ship ONLY when it is about to slide beneath the waves. The standard cliche is, "You should always step UP into your liferaft."

rhubstuff · 18-11-2022, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Water tight bulkheads WORK if properly designed. They can keep a boat afloat in extreme situations. They might not ALWAYS work, if you rip off a keel, or rip a 7 meter hole down the side, but under most failure modes they can save the boat, and (maybe) your life.

Of course few production boats are built with anything other than a "crash bulkhead" forward, and it is almost a practical impossibility to retrofit them to an existing design.

Our fully ballasted monohull boat has: A water tight anchor chain locker; A watertight bulkhead (with watertight door) between the forward cabin and main stateroom; A water tight engine room; A watertight bulkhead with watertight door between the main saloon and aft cabin; A water tight bulkhead between the aft storage lazerette and the aft cabin. That's SIX separate compartments.

The boat will float with any TWO flooded. If the forward cabin is flooded and the watertight door closed to the main cabin, the boat sits 10 deg down by the bow.

It sounds like you are describing watertight compartments, not bulkheads. Watertight bulkheads allow water to flow over the top into the next compartment, plus bilges are separate (no limber holes) and access holes for plumbing and wiring are plugged watertight. Which do you have, watertight compartments or bulkheads? BTW, a watertight compartment has ALL holes sealed from adjoining compartments and the outside;there are no common bilges, no piping or electrical openings, no possible way for water (or air, for that matter) to enter (or escape) from that space under any conditions of sea or submergence. I have NEVER seen that in a small craft of any type.

**Don C L** · 18-11-2022, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItDepends

This is the WORST advice I have seen on this forum in a long time, and that's saying something.

Anyone who thinks that the best plan is survival weather conditions is to "forget the boat" and jump into a liferaft, I KNOW for an absolute fact has never actually been in a liferaft, and has done no serious research on the topic at all. The smallest, least capable, ocean going sailboat is ALWAYS a better survival platform than a liferaft.

Read the books "Fastnet Force 10" and "Rescue in the Pacific." Pay special attention to the far too frequent cases of crews who abandoned the mothership for the liferaft where the yacht was found afloat after the storm passed, and the crew was never heard from again.

If your boat is floating, and not on fire, DO NOT launch the liferaft, much less get into it. You do NOT abandon ship when it is uncomfortable, or scary, or wet. You abandon ship ONLY when it is about to slide beneath the waves. The standard cliche is, "You should always step UP into your liferaft."

It sounded to me like rhubstuff would agree with you. "Survival" conditions sound to me like you are stepping up to the raft.

rhubstuff · 18-11-2022, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don C L

It sounded to me like rhubstuff would agree with you. "Survival" conditions sound to me like you are stepping up to the raft.

In a helicopter rescue, the crew of the chopper will tell you to get off the boat and swim away from it. If you don't, they will drop a rescue swimmer in to "help" you do so. This is standard procedure. The aircraft pilot will NOT risk getting his pickup line fouled in your sailboat's rigging. Therefore you will be required to get off the boat, and you'd better be wearing lots of flotation or have a raft to get aboard. The rescue will proceed faster if you are already in the water and ready to be picked up. I agree that you should stay with the boat until rescue is imminent because it is usually easier to spot a boat than a body from an aircraft. But so is a big 'ol orange raft...

**boatman61** · 18-11-2022, 11:35

Another 'one post' wonder never to be seen again..???

Shaneesprit · 18-11-2022, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

a 30' wave is a really, really, big arse wave. It would take sustained winds of over 50 knots plus for several days over a long fetch to create that.

should you experience 30' waves, you'll likely be in more trouble than some flotation can help...

My advice....never mind the flotation, stay away from 30' waves !!!

Doesn’t the OP live in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 plenty of weather up there. But just avoid the storms and keep an inflatable escape be it dingy or life raft - if your really worried look into the technology available to be found if you end up wet.

team karst · 18-11-2022, 11:47

Ping pong balls. And, you can always change your mind, difficult with expanding foam.

JAFO · 18-11-2022, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhubstuff

It sounds like you are describing watertight compartments, not bulkheads. Watertight bulkheads allow water to flow over the top into the next compartment

And how, exactly, do you make compartments on a small boat watertight, if not with watertight bulkheads (of the kind that don't allow water to flow over the top)?