J/42 & Sabre 402

[H.Finn]

I'd appreciate any thoughts on a J/42 versus a Sabre 402 for cruising. Trips would be 1 week - 3 months max. Mostly coastal stuff, some short crossings. Obviously looking for a little turn of speed, but need some creature-comforts for the family.

On paper, the boats look really similar - LOA, LWL, draft, displacement, etc. Used prices look very similar. To my eye, the J has great lines, and the 402 has a very nice interior. The Sabre is about a foot beamier which helps out with the more spacious interior, and the J has that classic canoe stern which seems like would do great in a blow.

Crew would usually be me, wife, 2 young kids.

Anyone ever shop these two against eachother, or have experience with them?

[Jim Cate]

G'Day HF and welcome to CF.

Can't offer experience to answer your question, but wonder if you have really looked at the J-42? None of the ones that I have seen have a canoe stern, in fact I don't think that any J-boats are so designed.

Good luck in your search

Jim

[H.Finn]

Thanks Jim. I guess what I mean to say is the J has somewhat of a tapered aft section - as opposed to a big sugar scoop. Maybe somebody knows the right word for tat.....not I!

[lifeofreilly57]

J's in general are mainly performance boats with some models falling into the racer/ cruiser category, for the most part. A performance hull and rig with enough creature comforts to keep the wife from killing you on a cruise. Sabre's are for the most part are performance cruisers, good sailing performance with more creature comforts, the extra beam you noted is a dead give away.
Either boat would probably be satisfactory depending on what you plan to do with the boat when your not cruising.
I've had C&C's, sailed on a number of J's and also had the pleasure of sailing a few Sabre's.
THe J's tended to be a little more spartan than the C&C's I've owned but just a little, while returning great sailing performance. If you were looking to club race during the week and cruise on the weekends the J would be a fine boat.'If on the other hand your looking for a more comfortable boat with good sailing characteristics and performance to coastal cruise with and do some racing from time to time the Sabre would be a good choice.
They're two sides of the coin, the J's are definitely biased on the performance side with compromises to creature comforts, the Sabres have more creature comforts with some compromises to racing performance.
Somehow I think the wife and kids will also weigh in on that decision, if you want to keep everyone happy. THe sugar scoop stern is a nice feature if your kids like to swim off the boat while at anchor, also when getting into and out of the boat from a dinghy.
Both are excellent boats built by quality builders, both have excellent sailing and performance characteristics, it just depends on what you feel your type of on water time will be spent doing.
The Sabre does not give up much in sailing performance for the xtra creature comforts, but if you really enjoy the total performance of the J it's a tough decision. Like I said, I'm sure your wife will have some say in the matter. Does she race?

[H.Finn]

Appreciate that perspective.

If I'm being honest with myself, we're not going to do much racing at all. We currently sail on a j/105 club-boat and hardly make it to the Wed-night beer can races.....kids and jobs and all. What we really do with the 105 is just daysail. Another reality for us is that more than 1 month n the boat at a time will be a stretch.

The admiral - she likes to enjoy the scene, but isn't interested in racing.

I'm hoping to find a boat that can be enjoyable in 5-8kts of wind, and is fun to sail/helm. Having never been on a Sabre, I'm having a hard time judging that on a 402.

I understand the hull lay-up on the J/42 is generally outstanding, but I've heard some gripes about finish out of the interiors and system installations by TPI - the shop that built most/many J/42s.

The other issue is A/C. We're in the gulf-south so marinas are super-hot 3-4 months out of the year, and there's the mold problem. Anchored out, no need for AC down here, IMO. I've seen some J/42s with A/C but it looks like a real squeeze.

On Sabres, it seems like most owners are very happy with overall workmanship - hull, systems, interior.

Are there any C&C models in the 40' range that you'd recommend taking a look at? I remember at one point lusting after a C&C 121. Any thoughts there?

[lifeofreilly57]

The C&C's are more similar to the J's but with a little more to the comfortable side, not a whole lot but enough to make a difference, then again it's also model specific in both makers. They sail and perform just as well though, it's more personal preference in that case.
When C&C was bought by Tartan they came out with a number of updated designs, used carbon fiber spars and really built from a clean sheet of paper so they weren't constrained by the original designs. J's designs were getting a little long in the tooth at that point but to their credit they responded with a number of excellent new boats, all focused on specific markets.
My wife and I loved our C&C (an older one) for it's sailing characteristics and capability at sea and found it comfortable for our use, beer can racing with cruising the New England coast mixed in, a 50/50 mix but now with our two boys find it a little cramped so we have moved to a more cruising oriented yacht. The other side of bringing the boys into the picture is that we don't have the time to race a Wednesday night series so the reality is that we really needed a performance cruiser to fit our needs.
It comes down to what you really need as opposed to what your evil other self really lusts after. Do I miss sailing my C&C with a few friends at night on the bay? Of course I do, it had great responsiveness and tactile feedback, even in light winds but the reality is it no longer fit our needs. When I'm out on our newer boat with my wife and kids cruising along comfortably and enjoying the creature comforts it has I'm just as happy, even better, when at anchor and sleeping in a queen sized bed as opposed to sleeping face to face in the V berth of the old boat it all makes sense.
See if you can get on and sail a Sabre, I don't think you'll be disappointed, they are great sailing boats and well built to boot. I've sailed on several and ripped through a couple auction boats I was bidding on, the build quality is very good, solid and detailed.
There's always a balance to juggle when deciding.

[H.Finn]

Appreciate that.

Yeah, I think if we're being honest with ourselves more of a cruiser is what we'll get the most use out of over the next decade or so. I really can't imagine making it races on any regular basis!

BTW, I looked up the Cheoy Lee 47 - beautiful boat!

There is a Sabre 402 for sale in New Orleans.....I'll check it out next time I'm down there.

If anyone else has a view on this - or any of the boats mentioned - would be great to hear from you!

[lifeofreilly57]

Thanks, it's the first boat I've owned in 30 years that wasn't an auction or insurance boat, it'll be a new experience.
All the others needed quite a bit to get them up to standard but were what I could afford at the time, I also learned so much about boat construction and design, I can also be confident in what is under my feet when at sea. Like they say, you've either got the money or the time but never the two at the same time.
Good luck, whichever way you decide to go, it's always a hard decision.

[Paul L]

The two boats rate pretty close to each other in PHRF. The J/42 is basically a J/40 with 2 feet stuck on the aft that has storage in it. The Sabre is beamier. If you want light air, easy sailing, with easy single-handing, the J will probably be better. The deck hardware layouts on the J's are meant for sailing. If you are essentially running the boat yourself and the wind picks up, you can furl the headsail and sail the J like a dinghy with just the main - no problem. If it picks up more, put a reef in the main and keep sailing. The J is probably a bit brighter down below. The Sabre will have more storage and space. No problem fitting an AC into one of the J/42 lockers. They will both be good boats and fun to sail.

[H.Finn]

Hey Paul, Thanks for that. One of my goals is to be able to single-hand it so, not only to sail solo, but also just so its easier to sail with friends who aren't familiar with sailing - or if standing watch alone. btw, I've checked out the Outbounds (online). Seem like amazing boats. I understand they are meant for longer-hauls than a Sabre or J/42 with the higher tankage, more storage, grid construction, robust systems - but did you cross shop Sabres or a J/44 when selecting your boat? Just curious as I frequently check out the Outbound 44/46s but since we're not aiming for circumnavigation or extended stays aboard (would love to, but not practical right now), the Outbound seems out of scope for us.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by H.Finn

Hey Paul, Thanks for that. One of my goals is to be able to single-hand it so, not only to sail solo, but also just so its easier to sail with friends who aren't familiar with sailing - or if standing watch alone. btw, I've checked out the Outbounds (online). Seem like amazing boats. I understand they are meant for longer-hauls than a Sabre or J/42 with the higher tankage, more storage, grid construction, robust systems - but did you cross shop Sabres or a J/44 when selecting your boat? Just curious as I frequently check out the Outbound 44/46s but since we're not aiming for circumnavigation or extended stays aboard (would love to, but not practical right now), the Outbound seems out of scope for us.

I owned a J/37 for 10 years. I can't think of more fun boat to sail and be comfortable. We cruised on her for 3 years. Moved up to the OB for more room while full time liveaboard. Don't think the OB matches your requirements. Too much tankage - you don't want to haul around a 160 gals of desiel. Plus we furl the genoa to tack.
We cruise a lot with friends on a Sabre 42. Its a nice boat and sails pretty well. Points decent and moves in light air. Not so easy to access the engine.

[flopresti]

If you now have a 105, you'll go crazy with the Sabre. The J42 will move in light winds, the saber is in a different class. The J is the more satisfying boat. More quality... Frank

[H.Finn]

Hey Frank, Appreciate that. Sounds like you are pretty happy with your J/40....willing to elaborate on your experience with the boat? I really like their lines and what I've read about the J40/42 performance & stability. On the interior, I'm not sure why they went with 2 heads, but I guess that's a classic debate on 40-footers. We were "racing" the 105 about 6 months ago and I remember a J40 cruising right past us....skipper with a cocktail in hand!

[flopresti]

H
I'm an old racer (had a ny36 before my J40). My wife loves Resolve. The interior is well appointed. We had looked at Swans (I used to race a 441 offshore). We used to joke that the Swan would still be at the mooring if we forgot to moor it. She did nothing in light winds and luckily we didn't find one - probably a 411. We coastal cruise (except a Bermuda trip every 10 yrs). Jumps, NYC to Norfolk, to Cape Cod.

I've done the Halifax race on a 41Benateau. My belief is these boats are well built but they are designed considering interior size over sailing ability. Not so for the j40/42. I feel she was designed as a fast (but certainly not ultra-light) safe sailboat. She loves 8kts breeze but sails like a laser in 20(if I'm singlehanding with just main).

The J, the deck layout , the winches, the main halyard (lead off the back of the boom down to 2 large winches on the traveler in front of the helm). The 40 single-hands easily with the large main . If I'm taking a group out with drinks/food all over the deck, I often just use the main, don't need crew to do the jib.

New the J is 2x the cost of a Saber or Beneteau, and you can see why. I've never bought a new boat....

[H.Finn]

Frank,

Thanks for that perspective on your J/40....good to hear some real-world perspective rather than just reading brochures, magazines. I do like the idea of being able to sail well on the main, alone. Seems like with a decent dutchman system (or similar) singlehanding the boat could become a reality.

In your opinion has the hype around SCRIMP lived up to itself? I guess versus today's technology, its not leading edge - but I'm not looking to buy a 2012 or 2013 boat. Any issues with moisture penetration? I don't think I've read about any....