Island suitable navigation gear

[rob denney]

We have received a grant from the UNDP to fit out the prototype cargo proa, set up sustainable boatbuilding courses at CATD and start plastic recycling. What was going to be the bare necessities for navigation on the boat, grudgingly paid for by me, has now become state of the art.

I am way out of date on what is available, so would appreciate any feedback.
The boat will be delivering cargo to and from mostly broken coral beaches near remote villages, initially in Eastern Fiji. The first route will be Bau Landing to Leleuvia resort,which is pretty tricky at low tide, with only a couple of unlit pole markers to show the way.

The crew will be trained to use and look after the equipment, but it needs to be 'island suitable'. ie, rugged. This is a work boat, not a racing or cruising yacht.

The supplier needs to be knowledgable and enthusiastic,*ideally with an agent in Fiji and able to communicate in basic terms to the electronic ignoramus (me) who will be installing the equipment.

What I think is required for navigation:
i) Waterproof chart plotter with a big touch screen, visible in sunlight, with waterproof connections, MOB function and the ability to overlay Google Earth and to make notes and add items to the charts. The boat will be sailing off the beaten track, nav markers are uncommon and there are a lot of poorly surveyed and changeable areas where we want to go.
ii) Back up for the above. This should be handheld/portable so it can be used on the Mini Cargo Proas built by CATD students and used for sail training. Ideally they use the same data (GE overlays, notes) as the main one.
iii) Depth sounder with in-hull transducer so there are no holes in the hull.

For safety:
i)Tracker to send position, speed and course to a shore based station.
ii) Weather service. Initially, trips will be 100 miles or less, daylight only, but reliable forecasts are always good.
iii) Sat phone or similar
iv) Personal and ship's EPIRB'sv) Flares
vi) 4 man liferaft
vii) Sea Safety course

Other stuff needed? Recommendations? Comments?
Thanks.

[Sparx]

My interpretation of your needs would point to a Garmin multi function display mounted somewhere out of the weather. Add to that a VHF radio and AIS. The AIS will an excellent tool to track the boat. Add a depth sounder too. All this equipment connects seamlessly to the MFD via NEMA2000, which is a networking solution that is designed to be waterproof. I might favor an 8 inch display over the larger 10 inch and up screens for cost savings, and buy a spare MFD for a very reliable set up.

There are other manufacturers besides Garmin, your choice. I have found Garmin equipment to be robust and relatively simple to operate. The brand is familiar to sailors and service providers everywhere.

For weather I like Predict Wind and coupled with a Garmin Inreach (purchased through Predict Wind) the boat and shore team can have access to weather forecasts.

An EPIRB might be a good add for safety.

With a boat making repeat voyages over the same waters I would expect the crew will quickly become highly skilled at navigating the route.

[yOyOeK1]

I think it's a boat for community cargo. If you want to make it easy accessible without a need of spending creazy money go with the phones / tablets.
An android devices you can have / make a chartploter.
It can do / be autopilot.
It can make connection with any device and make reporting about position or whatever.
I'm really interested in your project @rob denney
Let me know if I can help !

[requiem]

This looks like a very interesting project!

To your lists I would add VHF, and strongly consider adding AIS and at some point radar.

I know that in many parts of the world this may be a silly question (as in, the answer may well be "nobody cares"), but since it's a "work boat" additional regulations may be in play regarding required equipment. Do you know if any of that is in play here?

Regarding charts, do you know which are best for the area? So far as I'm aware, it's unlikely you'd be able to export Google Earth images for use with your average chartplotter, but some plotter providers may offer satellite imagery. So, I might start with what charts are best and then work out compatible hardware. (Unfortunately the better hardware doesn't tend to work with the better software.)

For your hardware needs a purpose-built plotter is best (Garmin, Raymarine, B&G, etc). Nothing else will really address the environmental requirements (brightness, etc) except perhaps a few cottage industry tablets. I like buttons and knobs as they are more precise and touchscreens can be finicky when there's water on them, but buttons and knobs can also break.

Unfortunately plotter software tends to be limited and doesn't really support proper chart work; you're basically limited to routes and dropping marks/waypoints. However, this may well be "good enough" for your needs. Otherwise, you'd looking at finding ways to use ruggedized tablets or PCs which also offer the potential of using a common software platform and more capable charting software.

[rob denney]

Thanks for the replies. Some queries and comments:
Is it possible to make the NMEA connection wireless?
The routes will become well known, but the process might be expensive! I spent a day last week sailing inside the reef for 50 miles along a relatively well travelled route. Navigation was a full time job, with occasional slowing down as the bottom got closer, which was not always what was shown on the Navionics (locally popular) charts.
AIS will be included, but radar is of limited use as there is little or no traffic and squalls are visible in the daytime. Maybe later when we are sailing at night.
Thanks for the offer yOyOeK1.
What charts "offer satellite imagery" options?
The rules at the moment apply to steel ships. Committees are being organised to write rules for sail power, but it will be a long process, hastened, I hope, when the boat is ready for work. They will include safety equipment, but it is unlikely specific navigation gear will be mentioned.

Please keep it coming.

Rob

[RaymondR]

I have found the bathymetry on Navionics charts to be very poor in shallow waters. This is probably due to the lack of up to date surveys. However, I have found the dashed purple recommended tracks to be very accurate.

I'm finding the MFDs I have tend to be a little bit delicate and am on about my fourth manufacturer replacement under warranty at the moment.

Consequently I'm losing trust in them and thinking of going back to OpenCPN on a refurbished Panasonic toughpad, which are available for about 1/4 the price of the MFDs, as my backup system.

If you are going to be training crews starting with something tough and cheap before moving to the more complex stuff might be a good idea.

I've also found that because they present an image indicating bottom topography and you can observe shoaling and deepening trends from the graphic without having to remember what the depth was, fish finders are far superior to just a depth readouts. I have both but tend to turn the fish finder on when encountering shallow water and when I come to anchor.

[yOyOeK1]

Originally Posted by rob denney

...
Is it possible to make the NMEA connection wireless?

Yes

If you go route phone/tablet you will have openCPN on it.
It will give you option to make chartplotter with charts from Navionics, but also, cmaps, satelite images from bing? All that you can make using SASplanet. Most important build or put new markings on top of existing maps with your readings from cheap fish finders.
Adding to phone something like loger of position and depth you can get this.
https://github.com/yOyOeK1/depthLoger
It's my old project.
Most of commercial chart plotters don't allow you to add your custom maps.

No expensive components.

Yes it's not lasting long time in boat environment. For price of one commercial chart plotter you can have 2 spears on board and still it will be less then half of the price.
Making enclosure, securing charging port. Build in battery backup.
My phone is with me 7 years. Full time on boat.

https://github.com/yOyOeK1/gimgkap
this app is to putting image as a map.

Notching is on the way to add physical buttons knobs to a phone/tablet to minimize touching actions Wireless keyboards or custom buttons panel it's my area.

As ricochet autopilot from same device.


How many boats you will build?
Is there any page about project beside cargo proa page?

[RaymondR]

The only problem I can forsee with using WiFi is the connection to the autopilot which devices don't come with it. Theoretically it could work if implemented using a WiFi USB dongle plugged into an RS422/485 converter wired into the NMEA 0183 or N2K terminals on the autopilot however one would need to break out the power conductors to provide the dongle and converter with 5 volts. There is also a potential software problem if a host is required for any drivers.

[yOyOeK1]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The only problem I can forsee with using WiFi is the connection to the autopilot which devices don't come with it. Theoretically it could work if implemented using a WiFi USB dongle plugged into an RS422/485 converter wired into the NMEA 0183 or N2K terminals on the autopilot however one would need to break out the power conductors to provide the dongle and converter with 5 volts. There is also a potential software problem if a host is required for any drivers.

By elimination of plugs like usb to rs422/485 you can have easy to build device with relays or mosfets in H bridge configuration to handle reversing polarity for motor in actuator or motor or pump.
H bridge is connected to esp family of microprocesorss. Today on ebay you can buy it or source it sometimes local.
esp (nodemcu) is with wifi it listing for command from phone/tablet and autopilot is as a application at the phone/tablet.
nodemcu have many pins / legs. it can have connection to nmea0183 or n2k or seatalk directly (using resistors or transistors).
5volt source is a car plug cigaret lighter usb charger. 6-32V if you check specks of specific unit.
Yes centralization is one thing. but every nodemcu can be with custom firmware. and work as a stand alone unit in some basic mode.

Check topik "arduino module" "arduino sensor" all that can be used and more.

[RaymondR]

Most of the gadgets which communicate via USB have a chip dedicated to the function of the gadget and a comms chip. The comms chip needs a driver often downloaded when one plugs in the gadget. I suspect that few if any autopilots have this capability in their software.

To run a track autopilots accept sentences from the nav system and internally process them to allow the pilots processor to generate the signals to the autopilots directional and power control circuitry.

I have not kept up on OpenCPN capabilities but last time I looked it had no rudder control capabilities which would allow it to be utilized with power and directional circuitry to implement an autopilot.

However, it would be a great capability to have and the Pypilot folk have already written pretty good control software which might be adapted thereto.

[wholybee]

Autopilot is easy. I can confirm as I do it, a Yacht Devices YDWG-02 gateway (nema 2k to wifi) and opencpn running on anything, including a tablet, will drive a Raymarine autopilot with no special configuration or setup. Just activate the route in OCPN, press the "Auto" button on the autopilot, and the autopilot will steer to it.

I see no reason why it won't work with any brand autopilot, or with another brand n2k to wifi gateway.

But back to the question at hand. Fiji is poorly charted. I hit an unmarked reef, in what by Navionics was 30 ft of water. Midday and I had a lookout, but the water was muddy, so we didn't see it until we were on it. The best way to navigate unfamiliar water in Fiji, and many S. Pacific Islands, is with some form of offline satellite maps. The best/easiest of these is OpenCPN and SAS Planet. I don't think there is anything comparable from commercial chart plotters.
What I would do, is get a good chartplotter, and also use OpenCPN. Plan a route on OCPN, and transfer it to the chartplotter for the voyage. You can keep opencpn running on the laptop as a check while sailing, but mostly, you keep a good lookout and follow your route. Of course, once you have done it a couple times, you will know that the autopilot will keep you exactly on track for future trips.

[RaymondR]

Does OpenCPN support N2K.

I probably need an update but it did not the last time I looked.

NMEA 0183 is far simpler to use and unless one wants to run radars from a MFD does more than sufficient for navigation and autopilot control and is far simpler and more usable than Lighthouse.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Does OpenCPN support N2K.

I probably need an update but it did not the last time I looked.

NMEA 0183 is far simpler to use and unless one wants to run radars from a MFD does more than sufficient for navigation and autopilot control and is far simpler and more usable than Lighthouse.

Indirectly. You need some device to go from either NMEA0183 or 2000 to wifi or USB to connect to your PC anyway. That device (I recommend Yacht Devices or Antisense) handles the conversion from NMEA2000 to NMEA0183 if it is necessary. It's transparent to the user. The yacht devices ydwg-02 with nmea2000 is as close to plug in play as it gets. It also provides AIS to OpenCPN, and Navionics too, if you use that on a tablet or phone.
Edit:
Autopilot has been supported on OpenCPN for a very long time. There isn't any configuration or options. Just that when a route is active, it will send the correct NMEA sentences for it.

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I have found the bathymetry on Navionics charts to be very poor in shallow waters. This is probably due to the lack of up to date surveys. However, I have found the dashed purple recommended tracks to be very accurate.

Do the routes allow for the tide which is 1.5-2m/5-7'? The boat can draw (liftable rudders, no keels or boards) as little as 0.5m/20" so recommended tracks will change with the tide state.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I'm finding the MFDs I have tend to be a little bit delicate and am on about my fourth manufacturer replacement under warranty at the moment.

Consequently I'm losing trust in them and thinking of going back to OpenCPN on a refurbished Panasonic toughpad, which are available for about 1/4 the price of the MFDs, as my backup system.

If you are going to be training crews starting with something tough and cheap before moving to the more complex stuff might be a good idea.

Good point. I had a brief look at CPN for an Apple ipad, got lost trying to download Fiji charts from the NZ hydro office. As my computer and ph are Apple, I would prefer to stick with it. The big problem with laptops on a work boat is they are more prone to going walk about.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I've also found that because they present an image indicating bottom topography and you can observe shoaling and deepening trends from the graphic without having to remember what the depth was, fish finders are far superior to just a depth readouts. I have both but tend to turn the fish finder on when encountering shallow water and when I come to anchor.

Fish finder it is. Ta.

Wholybee/YoYo, The SAS option for support looks good. Do they have a Mac version, or is there another supplier who does?

There will not be an autopilot, nor a radar at this stage.

YoYo, your Depth Loger also looks good. Anything happened with it since 2017?

Unfortunately (for me), the rest of this thread may as well be in a foreign language. Like I said, an electronics ignoramus. Whatever we end up with needs to be as close as possible to plug and play.

Keep it coming, please.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by rob denney

Good point. I had a brief look at CPN for an Apple ipad, got lost trying to download Fiji charts from the NZ hydro office. As my computer and ph are Apple, I would prefer to stick with it. The big problem with laptops on a work boat is they are more prone to going walk about.

If you're thinking iThings, I don't believe OpenCPN runs on iPadOS, only on MacOS. I have emailed Rose Point to check their support for iPads, it seems the devs at Apple may be getting closer to a permanent fix for an issue that led them to pull it from the app store, so hopefully that becomes an option.

I've found SEAiq works decently across an Apple ecosystem, and as I've also pulled the NZ charts I'm happy to do screenshots for you of any particular area you might like to see.