Is Alberg the best production designer ever?

[Ryan]

If you are looking at old Albergs, you should probably look at Pearson Vanguards. Over 400 made, a bit bigger than an A-30 but with similar aesthetics.

My wife used to single-hand hers, and we took it all over the Bahamas out-islands. It performed well in big seas and was comfortable, if not particularly fast.

[Sindbaad]

I suggest you look for a Halberg Rassy, Monsun 31'. have owned and sailed Athesa since mid 80s. I have sailed her in the shallow Baltic, Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific. Designer is Olle Endeline the famous Swedish designer. some 820 exemplars were made. Full keel, sea-friendly, good standing height, very roomy for a 31' footer. room to accomodate 5 tall people.
Still own her and love sailing her. Highly recommended.

"https://www.hallberg-rassy.com/yachts/previous-models/hallberg-rassy-monsun-31/

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by hukilaumike

I find it fascinating that so many have such different viewpoints on Alberg designs. In my humble - yet correct - opinion, no one ever designed a prettier boat than ol' Carl. Not even Philip Rhodes. However, the art and science of yacht design has greatly advanced in the seventy years or so since he became active. And it shows. Just about any quality boat of today (or even from twenty years ago) will sail better and be more comfortable in almost every way than an Alberg design.

Yes, Alberg designs do some things very well, but overall, they pale in comparison to modern yachts. It's like trying to compare a 1965 Mustang to a 2021 Toyota Camry. The Mustang does somethings better than the Camry for sure, but the Camry is more comfortable, reliable, safer, and economical. Objectively, the Camry is "better", just like a new Beneteau is "better" than an Alberg. Which is more stylish? Come on; it's not even close; the Mustang/Alberg is what you want to be seen in. But is it the boat you want to sail in?

I'd much rather look at an Alberg than a Beneteau. But I'd rather spend the weekend (or even a day) on the Beneteau.

I understand your POV and think it’s somewhat valid, but for example when you say a newer design is more comfortable than an older one I think that depends on how you define comfort. The older Alberg will have less room for the same LOA but if you go by LWL, the difference in roominess is much less. The newer boat will have more form stability so is great for sailing around in a light breeze without spilling the drinks and that’s definitely more comfortable, but it’s ultimate stability (safety) may be less than the older, admittedly slower, more initially tender, Alberg (or similar). But once you get used to always being heeled over when under sail, the narrower, deeper hulled, old designs give a much softer ride and are less likely to pound and I find that to be more comfortable than many newer designs in those conditions. I think where your Mustang/Camry analogy has limited applicability is in the fact that many of the moving parts of sailboats are gradually updated or replaced, but cars usually aren’t. So, while a vintage Mustang will probably be all stock parts except for the tires, the older sailboat is likely to have updated winches, electronics, sailing instruments, sails, etc. so all that’s original is the hull structure.

[psjanker]

I like Cape Dories. Own two of them a 28 and a 30b.

They are tough and will take conditions beyond what most crews can take. I like all sailboats but chose to own full keel boats because I will fail before the system does. See Cynthia Woods incident and similar accidents.

All sailboats are slow. In Nov I flew from Antigua to Virginia in about 5 hours....took 9 days to sail there. (Lagoon 42) Top speed was 17 knots but the average was 6.2 knots over the 1670 NMs. Either of my Cape Dories could have done the same. I agree that the Lagoon was sailing first class but I have never been beaten so bad in a sailboat. I would have rather been in my Cape Dory.

To give you an idea of the capabilities of Cape Dories read up on the 2015 Mobile Bay race. Several boats sank and there was multiple lives lost in hurricane force winds. While most boats were trying to survive, a Cape Dory was busy with rescuing those whose boats had sunk.

If you want a new Cape Dory 28-33 (semi custom Robinhood) be prepared to spend 3-4 hundred K. That one can pick up a ready to sail Cape Dory for 10-25k is unbelievable.

Cape Dories are tender initially but firm right up and its difficult to get the rail in the water. I recall pulling in at Chrisfield VA from Smith Island in the Chesapeake during some great sailing weather to a full harbor of weather “trapped” sailors trying to get to Annapolis for the 4th of July. Seeing new faces in the marina a sailor exclaimed where we had come from and could not believe we had crossed the Bay from Point Lookout (reputation for the worse conditions in the Bay) His partner looked out into the mooring field saw the 28 and stated words to the effect “ they have a Cape Dory!”. Having a Cape Dory is alot like having a jeep wranger in a snow storm.

In terms of pointing I have never had an issue with going upwind and with the fill keel its quite comfortable. That being said I do not recommend long distance travel by any sailboat when one has to beat. Trip to Antigua on a constant port beat in 25 to 35 knot winds beat that inclination out of me! If I planned on doing alot of racing, many boats will likely point higher.

V/r

Pete

[psjanker]

Here is an overview of the Cape Dory skipper who was inducted as a Alberg Fellow.

Greg Fuquay

On Saturday morning, April 25, 2015 one hundred and nineteen boats crossed the starting line of the 57th annual Dauphin Island Race in upper Mobile Bay. The finish line for the eighteen mile course lies just above the Dauphin Island Bridge near the mouth of the bay, and racers traditionally continue on to the anchorage behind the island for an end-of- race party and awards presentation. There would be no party this year.

At about 3 PM, as many of the boats were in the vicinity of the finish line, a violent storm hit the fleet with a force far above the forecast predictions and well above hurricane strength. Multiple “macrobursts” with vertical wind components approaching 100 mph caused numerous knockdowns and capsizes. Forty of the estimated four hundred and seventy five participating sailors ended up in the chilly waters and separated from their boats, tragically, six of them were drowned, their bodies recovered only after a massive search and rescue effort by the Coast Guard and Marine Patrols.

Three Cape Dories from the CDSOA Central Gulf Fleet were entered in the race, including the CD30B “Amazing Grace” under the command of the fleet secretary, Greg Fuquay. While most of the boats were engaged in making efforts to ensure their own survival Greg and his crew were moving beyond their own concerns. Searching for boats in distress and survivors in the water Greg and his crew threw all available life jackets and flotation devices to people he was unable to reach¸ and was able to maneuver in the estimated eight to ten foot seas and hurricane force winds to successfully pull two exhausted sailors out of the water. He is credited with saving their lives.

Greg is a relatively new Cape Dory sailor. Just two years prior to the 2015 race Greg entered the Dauphin Island race in his newly acquired CD25, and finished one boat shy of being presented with the “Perseverance Award”, given for the last boat to cross the finish line. Two years of experience have done wonders in making Greg a competent sailor who understands the oldest tradition of the sea, that no effort may be spared in bringing relief to those who find themselves in peril at sea.

For bringing credit upon himself and upon the Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association Greg is hereby recognized by our highest honor, that of being named an Alberg Fellow.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by psjanker

Here is an overview of the Cape Dory skipper who was inducted as a Alberg Fellow.

Greg Fuquay

On Saturday morning, April 25, 2015 one hundred and nineteen boats crossed the starting line of the 57th annual Dauphin Island Race in upper Mobile Bay. The finish line for the eighteen mile course lies just above the Dauphin Island Bridge near the mouth of the bay, and racers traditionally continue on to the anchorage behind the island for an end-of- race party and awards presentation. There would be no party this year.

At about 3 PM, as many of the boats were in the vicinity of the finish line, a violent storm hit the fleet with a force far above the forecast predictions and well above hurricane strength. Multiple “macrobursts” with vertical wind components approaching 100 mph caused numerous knockdowns and capsizes. Forty of the estimated four hundred and seventy five participating sailors ended up in the chilly waters and separated from their boats, tragically, six of them were drowned, their bodies recovered only after a massive search and rescue effort by the Coast Guard and Marine Patrols.

Three Cape Dories from the CDSOA Central Gulf Fleet were entered in the race, including the CD30B “Amazing Grace” under the command of the fleet secretary, Greg Fuquay. While most of the boats were engaged in making efforts to ensure their own survival Greg and his crew were moving beyond their own concerns. Searching for boats in distress and survivors in the water Greg and his crew threw all available life jackets and flotation devices to people he was unable to reach¸ and was able to maneuver in the estimated eight to ten foot seas and hurricane force winds to successfully pull two exhausted sailors out of the water. He is credited with saving their lives.

Greg is a relatively new Cape Dory sailor. Just two years prior to the 2015 race Greg entered the Dauphin Island race in his newly acquired CD25, and finished one boat shy of being presented with the “Perseverance Award”, given for the last boat to cross the finish line. Two years of experience have done wonders in making Greg a competent sailor who understands the oldest tradition of the sea, that no effort may be spared in bringing relief to those who find themselves in peril at sea.

For bringing credit upon himself and upon the Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association Greg is hereby recognized by our highest honor, that of being named an Alberg Fellow.

That's great!

I know lots of the guys on Beach Cats in that race would have appreciated the help.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

I am a little concerned about the tankage. I have my eye on a Cape Dory 27 but it only holds 24 gallons of water, which doesn't seem like a lot on an otherwise well-regarded boat.

I wouldn't be too worried about tankage unless you intend to cross oceans ALL the time, at which point it's more convenient.


But a solo sailor should not need to use more than a gallon a day - on short commons and with no showers etc, so *theoretically* that's a 24 day range, or 2400nm.


Where you gonna sail that long, that often...???

It's also relatively easy to add 'tankage' in the form of jerry cans, which can be kept below until added to the tank as it empties, then strapped to the rails when empty (to keep ballast low, not high).


Many offshore sailors and sailors travelling to remote areas adopt this method. It's no biggie.

[mlspadaro]

I grew up sailing on my Dad's Alberg 35 which was in the family for over 30 years, having purchased it when it was just a couple years old. I loved this boat and would gladly buy another. She sailed very well on all points. We sailed her numerous times in the channels between the Hawaiian islands which are among some of the roughest, with great performance. My dad ran her aground on a coral reef at night early on due to a confusion of range lights with similar lights on land and the coast guard towed her off sideways, dragging the keel, with only minor damage to the keel and none to the hull - the fiberglass of the 60s was laid VERY thick (11 ton displacement). When the boat was quite old, the balsa wood in the foam sandwich construction of the decks had rotted away and the decks needed to be rebuilt. And then there was the atomic 4 gas engine. It was, well... an Atomic 4! But it was a sailboat, not a motor sailer and even the engine was fine since Dad was quite handy mechanically. If you ever see that there's an Alberg 35 for sale in Hawaii or headed this way, please let me know!!
Captain Mary

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

I am a little concerned about the tankage. I have my eye on a Cape Dory 27 but it only holds 24 gallons of water, which doesn't seem like a lot on an otherwise well-regarded boat.

I was going to echo Buzzman on this one. My boat is very similar in terms of volume and I think I have 25 gallons in the keel. But actually I usually leave it there for ballast! I don't like the taste of it. But me and the 2 kids were out for 2 weeks last summer and had 15 gallons of bottled water (and I easily could have stowed more), plus bottles of juice and soy milk etc. Anyway, we came back with a lot of water, juice and milk left over. Now if you are thinking of water stowed for showers, well, it's a 27 foot boat... use sea water and then rinse with a little fresh water. I had a 5 gallon jug stowed under the v-berth for the bathing water rinses for the kids. I think I may have taken a bath too... can't recall right now. By the way, on a small boat, a plastic chemical sprayer makes a great cockpit shower.

[Carl-T705]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

PS, I have decided I love the Alberg 30. This one is outside my budget but it's sweeeeeet. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/88249

Get the money, you will never duplicate that boat for $30,000.

[406Columbia]

Originally Posted by Carl-T705

Get the money, you will never duplicate that boat for $30,000.

Agreed! Stunning boat for the money, you couldn't find a free boat with solid hull and refit it to that level for that money. I'm in the process of doing a Columbia 29, three years into it. Doing the best quality work and components we are presently capable of and its not cheap or quick. That said, you can get that boat for under 30k.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Most people own 3 or more boats over their cruising time (I'm on my 6th). It's a waste of time to try to pick the perfect boat for the rest of your life.

Amen. I’m on #5 in 47 years.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by Lance Monotone

PS, I have decided I love the Alberg 30. This one is outside my budget but it's sweeeeeet. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/88249

Yeah, I think that’s pricey. I sold my ‘75 with a new diesel for $21,000. 25 years ago with comparable gear. I think you can beat that. There have always been a lot of A-30’s on the Chesapeake. Check with the Chesapeake Alberg 30 owners’ group.

[Linesledaft]

There is a pretty decent Alberg 30 on Annapolis Craigslist for $7500 or so. Might be worth checking out?

[Linesledaft]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I understand your POV and think it’s somewhat valid, but for example when you say a newer design is more comfortable than an older one I think that depends on how you define comfort. The older Alberg will have less room for the same LOA but if you go by LWL, the difference in roominess is much less. The newer boat will have more form stability so is great for sailing around in a light breeze without spilling the drinks and that’s definitely more comfortable, but it’s ultimate stability (safety) may be less than the older, admittedly slower, more initially tender, Alberg (or similar). But once you get used to always being heeled over when under sail, the narrower, deeper hulled, old designs give a much softer ride and are less likely to pound and I find that to be more comfortable than many newer designs in those conditions. I think where your Mustang/Camry analogy has limited applicability is in the fact that many of the moving parts of sailboats are gradually updated or replaced, but cars usually aren’t. So, while a vintage Mustang will probably be all stock parts except for the tires, the older sailboat is likely to have updated winches, electronics, sailing instruments, sails, etc. so all that’s original is the hull structure.

+1
Pounding is not fun, and can get downright scary in a poorly built boat.

I gladly sacrificed some modern comforts for peace of mind when I purchased my A35. Probably don't need the wine and cheese in the cockpit anyhow haha.