Help me spend $350 K on a boat

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

There's nothing wrong with the OP's question. There are a lot of people with a lot of experience on this forum. It is possible that someone might offer some valuable advice. That's kind of the point here. If you don't have something constructive or helpful to offer just move on. Personally, I prefer this to the typical I'm sick of my life & I have no money but I want to buy a big boat & sail around the world threads.

The point, which you obviously missed, is that all the conflicting advice and opinion can/will cause confusion. Unless of course you have some reliable means of discerning the difference. Do you?
Perhaps you should either "move on" or offer some practical advice to someone asking that sort of question rather than making assumptions as to the intent of other peoples opinions...

[bfiegener]

I did a lot of research and found this site helpful. Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org
Make a list of what is important to you and try to find a boat that meets most of them. I too will be sailing to those destinations in a year or so, so a shoal draft, skeg hung rudder was on the top of my list. Cutter rigged and easy sail handling was a must. two staterooms and two heads were also important. Once you get the basics down everything else can be upgraded or replaced. We are still in the process of upgrading and adding systems even though the boat we bought had a lot of systems
already installed.

I would also recommend doing most of the work yourself if you are so inclined. knowing your boat inside and out is important. Being able to solve and fix issues yourself is a must.
good luck and keep us posted.
bill
s/v Aquila

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by morven55

The poor OP will be so confused by all the "opinions' that he will take up golf instead of cruising.

You say that like it's a bad thing

[YellowcakeMan]

We bought an older (30 yrs) high quality 43' Shannon ketch in only fair condition, but sailable and livable, for about 1/3 the money you're talking about. We spent about a year living aboard, spending only the minimum to keep things going and doing only local "cruising." We then sailed her to the original builder and are currently having her completely restored over the winter to like-new specifications using the other 2/3rds of the money. By doing this, we are accomplishing several things: (1) we didn't put in all of our $ until we were sure we liked the boat and liked cruising; (2) we figured out what we liked and didn't like about the boat by living aboard and are able to make major changes (e.g., a genset and bow thruster are important for us, electric heads and entertainment systems are not); (3) we gained experience in boat handling and repairs (e.g., crunching the fuel dock) with an old boat that needed work rather than a shiny new one; (4) we are getting our boat "reset" to original manufacturer's quality (she suffered from 30 years of incremental upgrades done by different yards and technicians of various qualities and there was no holistic approach to the upgrades); (5) we are getting to choose the brands of the new systems that we want rather than having to put up with someone else's choices (e.g., an entire new B&G integrated elex suite, whereas before, we had a mix of five or six different manufactures with differing years of NMEA standards and hardly any of it worked together); (6) we were able to have confirmation from the original boat builder that the things that really matter (hull, structure, rigging, etc.) are sound; and (7) we gained experience on the waterfront before we made the difficult choices for the restoration. This approach is working well for us, and it is a lot more fun than just dumping our money into the whole in the water up front and hoping our surveyor got it right.

[nortonscove]

I would think that if I were the one looking to spend 350k on a boat I would be experienced enough not to be asking that question on here. I spent far less than that in Canadian dollars and never once thought someone else could tell me what was best for me.
First broker started telling me what I didn't want in Newfoundland and from then on I stopped listening to the guy with the opposite taste than me. Found our boat by stepping aboard and sailing it. Still think it was the best boat for us. Not the only boat but the best we could afford and was within a reasonable distance from us .

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

You say that like it's a bad thing

Pleeeeeeeeze tell me that you are not afflicted with the game of hitting little balls with clubs on manicured lawns...

Oh, woe is me....:] [bigger grin]

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by morven55

The point, which you obviously missed, is that all the conflicting advice and opinion can/will cause confusion. Unless of course you have some reliable means of discerning the difference. Do you?
Perhaps you should either "move on" or offer some practical advice to someone asking that sort of question rather than making assumptions as to the intent of other peoples opinions...

You've got to be kidding. When has a thread on this forum not had conflicting advice. That's life. Doesn't mean you stop asking questions. Telling the OP that asking for advice is dumb & he should just figure it out himself is not constructive.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

I would think that if I were the one looking to spend 350k on a boat I would be experienced enough not to be asking that question on here. I spent far less than that in Canadian dollars and never once thought someone else could tell me what was best for me.
First broker started telling me what I didn't want in Newfoundland and from then on I stopped listening to the guy with the opposite taste than me. Found our boat by stepping aboard and sailing it. Still think it was the best boat for us. Not the only boat but the best we could afford and was within a reasonable distance from us .

You understand completely! A boat that one is comfortable on, has the capability to do what is asked of it, that is what counts. People cruise quite happily in a wide variety of boats. Any boat will need to be outfitted to the needs of the owner, and there are thousands of suitable boats.
People have crossed oceans in every type of boat imaginable...
And everyone has an opinion as to what type of vessel is suitable...for their own needs, and in their own experience.

[barnakiel]

At this budget, you will have zero problem finding a good boat. Your split is small new one or an older one and get it ready. Mind a new one has to be gotten ready too ...

And then maybe a small cat. A cat is a smart choice in many ways.

In monos, I would look at some Dutch and Scandinavian boats, some US stuff, some French too. Of the top, say Contest, Koopmans, Zaal, HR, Najad, Bowman, Rustler, Valiant, Morris, PS, Amel.

If you prefer a faster boat then maybe a Pogo, an X-Yacht or an Arcona.

If you like cats then maybe a Privilege or a Catana.

Truly, endless options and it s all up to how you like to sail and how much the new vs. old counts to you.

b.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

You've got to be kidding. When has a thread on this forum not had conflicting advice. That's life. Doesn't mean you stop asking questions. Telling the OP that asking for advice is dumb & he should just figure it out himself is not constructive.

I did NOT say that asking for advice was dumb...that, once again, is your interpretation.
I suggested that he/she get the experience necessary in a less confusing manner.
Making decisions regarding spending that kind of money may best be made on the decks of a variety of boats.
Nothing wrong with asking questions on a forum, just be prepared to get opinions that could easily confuse a novice...

[Mithril Bham]

One more comment on charter. Try to find owner/operated charter since they will know that boat well. Maybe I am thick but when I used to run charters it would take me a week aboard to learn a boat thoroughly.
Although a monohull guy myself, the most comfortable sailboats I've been on, by far, have been Cats. Except maybe a 160 ft. Perini Navi.
Sometimes you can find an owner who doesn't normally charter to take you out. We love our boats and want to show the off.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by ShackAttack

We want a 42 - 48 ft sturdy, well built cruiser that we can outfit to be sailed by a couple in their fifties, but with enough room for occasional family, friends and crew. We want to start along the Eastern Seaboard then Bahamas and into Caribbean. Eventually joining ARC events in the Panama Canal and South Pacific. If you were starting out fresh with a 350K budget which MAKER, MODEL, AGE of boats would you consider? Center cockpit? Pilot house? We favor cutter rigged sloops but some people are telling us to consider a big catamaran.

I also wonder ... Is it better to buy an older boat and do the major overhaul yourself (so you know every system has been updated) or to find that boat that's been all tricked out for cruising but never really used much?

Calling for your Wisdom and Experience!!

If you look at the ARC ship lists you'll see the most popular brands. The ARC has a bias to newer vessels.

For us the ARC holds no attraction. I suspect we're not alone here.

If you look on youtube you'll find many couples cruising on mostly older vessels. You wont find much consistency on brands because the sample size is so small.

If I was in your shoes and wanted to purchase a suitable late model vessel in a short time frame I would choose a Hylas, Hallberg Rassy or Oyster.

The key is to buy a well maintained vessell that the previous owner has outfitted. Then you only need to update and enhance.

Instrumentation and electronics are the big ticket items assuming other ship systems are in good order.

We have a Liberty 458 that was well maintained and well outfitted by the previous owner who owned her for 21 years.

There are no vessels built today in this size range that have an equivalent build. By this we mean hull thickness, solid old growth air dried teak interior and overall build quality. These are key criteria for us.

We spent 18 months waiting for our boat to come on the market. We had her under contract in 2 days. We've been living aboard now for 2 years.

You'll need a post purchase budget. That will depend on the vessel you buy and what expenses you incur to get her in a state you want.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

I would think that if I were the one looking to spend 350k on a boat I would be experienced enough not to be asking that question on here. I spent far less than that in Canadian dollars and never once thought someone else could tell me what was best for me.
First broker started telling me what I didn't want in Newfoundland and from then on I stopped listening to the guy with the opposite taste than me. Found our boat by stepping aboard and sailing it. Still think it was the best boat for us. Not the only boat but the best we could afford and was within a reasonable distance from us .

Why relate money to experience. Many of the sailors I've me with the most experience have little means while wealthy people often get into boating with little experience. If you have a lot of money you're not going to buy a cheap boat, no matter how much experience you have. Also, why assume the OP is not experienced. Nobody knows everything about every boat out there. Smart people know what they don't know. I see nothing wrong with asking advice about buying a cruising boat on a "Cruiser's Forum".

[Mithril Bham]

I have found that the smartest people ask the most questions from every available source. Money is relative. Most people on earth think all of us sailors are a bunch of spoiled babies. You can spend a hell of a lot more than 350K on a boat.

[Polux]

As it was posted above that kind of question does not make sense because different cruisers would chose different type of boats to do what you want to do.

I will not post my preference because my personal tastes are not very common but the ones of a very well known sailor that had circumnavigated 4 times in very diferent types of boats, Jimmy Cornell. The type of boat that he used to do the two last ones is the type he finally decided that was the best for him to do that: an aluminium centerboard yacht with cutter configuration.

For that price you can get among that type of boats OVNIS 445 and Allures 44. The one before the last was made on an OVNI 43 but now he seems to prefer Allures that has a composite deck and an aluminum hull, with most of ballast outside the hull on a skeg. All that allows the boat a better stability and a better AVS compared with OVNI.

350000USD are about 314000 euros, considering you can bring the price down, you probably can have:

ALLURES YACHTING ALLURES 44 - Voilier ALLURES YACHTING ALLURES 44 d'occasion
Voiliers ALLURES YACHTING ALLURES 44 d'occasion - Vente ALLURES 44 BREST (29 - FINISTERE) | EYB

Voiliers Alubat Ovni 445, Voiliers D?riveur occasion ? la vente (Vend?e) | N?68482
2009 Alubat Ovni 445 Voile Bateau à Vendre - www.yachtworld.fr

Here you have the opinion of Cornell about the Allures 45 that is very similar to the Allures 45:
http://www.allures.fr/pdf/AY_45_pres...rnell_bdef.pdf
Take it with a grain of salt because Cornell bought a Garcia 45, another boat made by Allures, that use the hull of the Allures 45, with some reinforcements.

Even if you could not find any used Allures 45 for that price you can have an idea about how those boats are about and how they sail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkwBY-CGHcA