Hard Dodger (Sprayhood) Illustrated Guide - Examples, Tips

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Polux

The one it is missing is the JPK45, a boat that I would like to own and in my opinion the one with the best looking hard dodger on all thread. I posted about it some time ago on my blog "JPK 45, another great, very fast, voyage boat"

It doesn't look terrible but looks a bit narrow. The front windows would be something of a greenhouse and headroom looks compromised especially if you are sitting in the high side which is many peoples preference at typical cruising angles of heel.

Don't like the twin wheels and twin rudders. Seems pointless putting twin wheels on a boat that your going to sit under a cuddy and steer with the AP. Twin rudders for a cruising boat

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

It doesn't look terrible but looks a bit narrow. The front windows would be something of a greenhouse and headroom looks compromised especially if you are sitting in the high side which is many peoples preference at typical cruising angles of heel.

Don't like the twin wheels and twin rudders. Seems pointless putting twin wheels on a boat that your going to sit under a cuddy and steer with the AP. Twin rudders for a cruising boat

I disagree with you on all points.

Regarding the greenhouse, assuming that it is on hot weather, you probably didn't saw that all the middle panel can be open for ventilation.

Regarding the comfortable sitting position under the dodger for sailing that one was taken directly from solo race boats where a very good resting position while one takes car of the boat, specially at nigh when asleep for short periods, is fundamental. The builder of that boat is an accomplished short crew and solo racer with several racing transats and many others on his belly. I am quite sure he has the experience to design a very comfortable settee for what it is intended too.

The last observation reveals that you don't know to whom this boat is pointed too. I had said that it is a very fast passage making and it points to the ones that like cruising and passages as much as they like sailing. They will be on Dodger settee at night or when raining or needing rest but they will be many hours at the wheel just for the incomparable pleasure of sailing a fast boat fast. Those two wheels allow the skipper to seat comfortably on the side of the boat, the best position to handle it and to enjoy the ride.

If it had not a single wheel it would to have a huge one, for allowing a comfortable siting position on the side. A huge wheel has the advantage of a slightly better feel but is really a nuisance for a solo sailor that has to go many times forward, making that passage a bit difficult and slow, specially on heavy seas. Believe me I know, I have a boat with that configuration.

Nothing of what you said would be wrong if we were talking about other type of passagemaker, for instance a Boreal. These are two boats pointed to completely different sailors, both liking to voyage, but in a very different way.

This in fact is the JPK (Jean Pierre Kelbert) long range cruising boat, the same way Cigalle/Levrier was Finot dreaming long range cruising boat. Both boats have many things in common since both are experts in fast boats for solo sailors but I would say this one is a more all around performer, almost for sure better upwind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVENPo1HnI

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Polux

I disagree with you on all points.

Regarding the greenhouse, assuming that it is on hot weather, you probably didn't saw that all the middle panel can be open for ventilation.

Regarding the comfortable sitting position under the dodger for sailing that one was taken directly from solo race boats were a resting position while one takes car of the boat, specially at nigh when asleep for short periods is fundamental. The builder of that boat is an accomplished short crew and solo racer with several racing transats and many others on his belly. I am quite sure he has the experience to design a very comfortable settee for what it is intended too.

A very presumptuous answer; more presumptuous that you think I am being.

I disagree with you on all points. I know who the boat is aimed at. That is obvious.

My dodger is configured in a very similar way as far as seating is concerned but the sides are steeper, not much, and with more seperation between the seatbacks and the dodger giving more head room. I'm a short crew too but remember than when heeled and you are sitting on the high side, better for view and comfort your head wants to be upright and your shoulders back therefore needing more space.

He might be experienced but in that case he as got it wrong. In my opinion which you obviously think is kak, but I have experience or sitting under dodgers too and have worked out quite a lot of what works and what doesn't.

Removable panel or not it is still a greenhouse. Remember if he is upwind there will be spray and you can get spray on a hot day too!

Surely if he was serious about helming for pleasure he would have a tiller, or tillers

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

A very presumptuous answer; more presumptuous that you think I am being.

I disagree with you on all points. I know who the boat is aimed at. That is obvious.

My dodger is configured in a very similar way as far as seating is concerned but the sides are steeper, not much, and with more seperation between the seatbacks and the dodger giving more head room. I'm a short crew too but remember than when heeled and you are sitting on the high side, better for view and comfort your head wants to be upright and your shoulders back therefore needing more space.

He might be experienced but in that case he as got it wrong. In my opinion which you obviously think is kak, but I have experience or sitting under dodgers too and have worked out quite a lot of what works and what doesn't.

Removable panel or not it is still a greenhouse. Remember if he is upwind there will be spray and you can get spray on a hot day too!

Surely if he was serious about helming for pleasure he would have a tiller, or tillers

And you call me presumptuous

Okay, when I try those seats and I will tell you about it. I am big and if they fit to me they will fit to everybody, in what regards space. They look alright to me but you can only really tell when you try them.

[Sandero]

The aesthetics of this boat do not appeal to me. It's looks practical however. I don't care for the hard dodger thingy.. but it's better than most. Different strokes...

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Polux

And you call me presumptuous

Okay, when I try those seats and I will tell you about it. I am big and if they fit to me they will fit to everybody, in what regards space. They look alright to me but you can only really tell when you try them.

It appears quite obvious that anyone sitting will hit their head on the inside of the hard dodger.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Polux

And you call me presumptuous

Okay, when I try those seats and I will tell you about it. I am big and if they fit to me they will fit to everybody, in what regards space. They look alright to me but you can only really tell when you try them.

The one thing that would bother me about those seats: no place to put your feet up.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The one thing that would bother me about those seats: no place to put your feet up.

On the other seat I should think. The inside top edge needs some treadmaster, hard on the thighs though.

Two sitting opposite each other with legs interlocked could be hazardous if there is a slip

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Post 126 from the top down:

Amel
Boreal
Garcia
Atlantic 43
Atlantic
not sure
Django 12.70

And the Allures 52 between Garcia and Atlantic 43 which has a custom hard dodger installed by the owner

[chouliha]

Well i guess it's time to jump in the mix. Wish i had this great site when we designed and built our dodger 15 years ago. So many beautiful dodgers.

I thought folks might be interested in seeing our build from start to finish. Years ago i put together a pdf with some pics and descriptions. Put out on our website(jacarandajourney.com) in "Other Good Stuff" #9 Building a Hard Dodger.

Hoping it might help those that are thinking of building there own dodger. Having sailed offshore for many years with cloth dodgers we knew what we thought would work.

Safe sailing

Chuck
Jacaranda
Lying Tahiti

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

It appears quite obvious that anyone sitting will hit their head on the inside of the hard dodger.

I don't think you can say that without trying. it is a rounded part and it may (or not ) give you adequate support for the head. As I said I will try to test that.


My confidence that the seats are ergonomically correct is based on the huge experience of the builder as a solo offshore skipper (or duo), having won with one of his boats the biggest French Transat for small boats last year, with a boat built by his shipyard featuring a internal seat with about the same design that is used outside on the JPK 45. That basic design is the same that is used on similar small race boats used for solo or duo transat racing.

The main competition to him tand his new JPK 1080, on that transat come from the new racing Sunfast 3600 (featuring identical seats?. Have a look:

The 3600 has even two, one on each side of the boat. Solo racing sailors prefer to sleep there than on the cabin, to be more readily available if something goes wrong. As you can see the distance to the floor is about the same than on the cockpit of the JPK 45, maybe lesser, I mean when the support that is below one of the seats is put on his place (look at the wood parts bellow the seats).:


Have a look at the Sunfast 3600 on that race. JPK beat it, so you can see how good and experienced he is as a solo/duo racer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1X1zi2A5Xs

[Don C L]

Got any shots of sitting in those seats in the cockpit?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Got any shots of sitting in those seats in the cockpit?

Yes, min 042 and 044.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVENPo1HnI

I am not sure if the head support is comfortable for the guy (that seems to be very high) but it is certainly comfortable for the lady (044).

It would be very simple to lower the chair and the feet support to allow for a bigger guy to feel comfortable. The Idea is to have the head as high as possible without being uncomfortable to allow a good forward view.

I know personally JPK and I discussed with him the possibility to have one of his boats (that was 15 years ago or so) modified on some points to my requirements (at the time he only had boats more pointed for racing than for cruising) and it was a real pleasure discussing with him. You could feel the depth of is knowledge (on sailing and boats) and their suggestions and will to adapt the boat to the particular needs of a sailor were just great.

Note the huge ventilation of the dodger with that central part opened (0.44).

[Terra Nova]

They're both hitting their heads on the inside of the dodger!!! And can only sit uncomfortably with head position and movement restricted.

Shows an absence of human factors design.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes, min 042 and 044.

.

Ah, ok, I missed the board that is put in as a foot rest. If I may be so bold as to give advice, the board may need a higher foot rest/brace there in the middle to really lean against... but then maybe this boat doesn't heel too much. The headroom for me might be annoying too... sems it could be remedied by lowering the seat and moving it inboard a bit.