Do I Really Need a Bluewater Boat ?

[wolfenzee]

Take a good long think as to the type of sailing that you will actually be doing, then decide on the boat you really need.

[wolfenzee]

Even if I could afford a "modern design" production boat I'd stick with my funky old ocean cruiser. The boat I have is a "blue water boat", one of it's endearing qualities was it low purchase price (though after I have completed a full refit in and out the final price will be almost $25,000)

[MarkJ]

And my point is over-engineered boats are absolutely not needed, far too expensive, far more difficult to maintain, far more difficult to resell, and can be far more dangerous because instead of sailing conservatively or avoiding bad weather it's easy to say "Oh, I'm in a Swan, it'll handle it"

Its not the boat, its the user behind the wheel. And a concerned user is far better than a financially stressed complacent sailor.


Whatever boat you decide on make sure its your own decision not someone saying you should buy an antiquated poorly designed lump of peeling varnish just because some duffer says it has a long keel so therefore better than any modern designed, modern produced, easily maintained boat that costs half and doesnt break down.

Now if that damn thread ignore feature would operate this thread would disappear from my screen!

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

... and can be far more dangerous because instead of sailing conservatively or avoiding bad weather it's easy to say "Oh, I'm in a Swan, it'll handle it"

You have a good point. Expectations of safety can kill you. More tourists are killed in Africa by hippos than crocodiles. Why? Because everyone knows a crocodile will kill you whereas a hippo is just a just wet cow - no one expects a hippo to be very territorial and so they throw caution to the wind and run up to the hippo to have their picture taken and get promptly stomped.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Its not the boat, its the user behind the wheel. And a concerned user is far better than a financially stressed complacent sailor.

Yep! As the gun nuts are always reminding us, guns are not dangerous, it's the people holding the gun that is dangerous. That is true of planes, cars and boats as well.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Whatever boat you decide on make sure its your own decision not someone saying you should buy an antiquated poorly designed lump of peeling varnish just because some duffer says it has a long keel so therefore better than any modern designed, modern produced, easily maintained boat that costs half and doesnt break down.

A sensitively expressed opinion there Mark! The other thing about a 20/30 year old boat is that it is 20/30 years nearer its end than a new boat, replacement parts may be hard to get and the material science of today is better than that of several decades ago. Look at a 1980s car compared to a new one. I've flown 1960s aircraft which are still airworthy but they are uncomfortable, "unfinished", and fly poorly compared to a modern aircraft.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Now if that damn thread ignore feature would operate this thread would disappear from my screen!

Yes, I have that problem with a few other threads too. I thought I was doing something wrong. Obviously not.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

And my point is over-engineered boats are absolutely not needed, far too expensive, far more difficult to maintain, far more difficult to resell, and can be far more dangerous because instead of sailing conservatively or avoiding bad weather it's easy to say "Oh, I'm in a Swan, it'll handle it"

Its not the boat, its the user behind the wheel. And a concerned user is far better than a financially stressed complacent sailor.
Thread ignore is a voluntary feature....if you don't want to read the thread then don't and leave it to those of us that do


Whatever boat you decide on make sure its your own decision not someone saying you should buy an antiquated poorly designed lump of peeling varnish just because some duffer says it has a long keel so therefore better than any modern designed, modern produced, easily maintained boat that costs half and doesnt break down.

Now if that damn thread ignore feature would operate this thread would disappear from my screen!

ANTIQUATED POORLY DESIGNED LUMP!! William Atkin designed some of the best ocean cruisers ever built. And if anything it cost me 1/2 of what a production boat would have cost and the lack of gadgets cuts down on the break downs. (any boat that doesn't break down never leaves the slip)

[mrohr]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The 2 or 3 biggest Hunters would be fine. 45, 49 and 50 footers.

No new boat comes with enough anchor chain or the best anchor. You just clip on an extra 50 meters of chain and a Rocna or Manson Suprime.

Your RTW would be via the Coconut Run keeping in the tropics and the correct season... but then who wants to freeze their butts off round the Horn anyway?

Hunters are affordable. That means you can buy a new or near new boat. You don't want an old one.

Also you need to see theres some posts where a new Hunter was badly built and or bad post sales service. I think you NEED to watch the build at the factory and have a lawyer draw up come conditions for the dealer / factory to agree to.

If you are looking at hunters there are other production boats out there too that might be competative in price.

We has seen a number of very old boats in the 28 foot to 35 foot range doing the pacific, Australia and Asia... I can only figure that a large new Hunter would be much better fun, and safer!


Mark

Hi Mark: I love your posts and respect your experience and humor,but if you need a lawyer to go RTW you are not going but maybe he is!

[Curmudgeon]

Would you prefer to go off road in a Chevy Malibu, or in a jeep?

Like many cars, boats are designed for a certain type of sailing. Can you take a fin keeled, spade ruddered boat around the world if you are a good sailor? Sure, and in fact some guy circumnavigated in a Catalina 27 (although he made modifications to improve seaworthiness).

But if you intend to make long ocean passages, it seems more prudent to buy a boat designed for offshore sailing, and to have a budget large enough to acquire the proper safety equipment ( life raft, EPIRB, etc.).

There are many posts here asking whether a suitable long distance cruiser can be purchased and outfitted for some ridiculously low amount of money. The answer is no. I'm guessing that most of these folks are not experienced cruising sailors, because if they were they wouldn't have to ask the question.

But can you make long passages is a budget boat? Sure, it simply depends on your appetite for risk.

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

But can you make long passages is a budget boat? Sure, it simply depends on your appetite for risk.

.... and that is really the point isn't it? Regardless of the boat there is ALWAYS a risk. It's the size of the risk that matters.

[wolfenzee]

As far as what is possible, Polynesians crossed the Pacific in dugouts. The original question seems to have been interpreted in two ways....What is possible and what is best for blue water cruising. This question can only be legitimately posed on an individual boat by boat basis.

[DeepFrz]

It was in Cuba in the mid 90's. It was wood, it was old and it was in bad need of some TLC. The sails were old and had been patched many times. The rigging was rusty and had been repaired a number of times. The motor ran but smoked badly. It was crewed by a bunch of young people from Norway. They had sailed it from Norway to the Caribbean and were on their way up the East Coast of the US before heading back to Europe. Had indeed seen some "Blue Water" miles. Would I have sailed it across a lake? Not on your life.

[DeepFrz]

There is an interesting thread anyone considering buying a boat should read. Sometimes things can get really rough, even close to shore. It may be because someone made an error in judgment or because the weather turned out to be worse than forecast, or a combination of things, but it sure would be nice to be in a tough boat when it happens.

Strait of Juan de Fuca at 0300 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mrohr

Hi Mark: I love your posts and respect your experience and humor,but if you need a lawyer to go RTW you are not going but maybe he is!

I'll take this opportunity to ask................WTF are you talking about! All he said was to have a contact to cover yourself if building a boat. What's that got to do with your post. Mark is going around the world so what's your point? Are you saying if you need to hold your builder accountable you aren't going to be able to go RTW.

Ever notice how most of the builders of the "real" boat that get memtioned went out of business 20 years ago!

[Curmudgeon]

I didn't realize that Hinckley, Morris, Shannon, Island Packet, Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, Cape George, Oyster, Northshore, Hallberg Rassey, Alubat, Wauquiez and Amel were out of business. When did this happen?

[wolfenzee]

"Blue water sailing" is also refereed to as passage making....ie far enough away from land so even if you did have all the high tech weather gadgets and did see the storms coming you couldn't get out of their way. Being close enough to sheltered waters to get out of the way of bad weather is called coastal cruising, there is nothing wrong with it, it is wonderful. Getting the right boat for the right purpose at the right price is possible as long as you have more time and patience than money.

[Thorin]

So what I got out of this thread was, sail sail sail sail sail and then sail some more. And when you have the skill to take a canoe sound the world go out and get the best boat you can afford for the type of sailing you are going to want to do and buy the safety equipment you are going to need to sail the roughest oceans your going to go into. I guess do I need a blue water boat is rhetorical.