Do I Really Need a Bluewater Boat ?

[Ex-Calif]

Just a random electron here. Maybe a new person starting out should take a sailing course (ASA123 or whatever) and the very next thing to do is beg, borrow, steal or pay for an ocean passage of at least 10-12 days.

I've only done short passages mainly due to time constraints but I don't think anyone can understand 20 days at sea until they actually do it.

I'm usually knackered after 12 hours or so. I can't imagine 8 months.

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Just a random electron here. Maybe a new person starting out should take a sailing course (ASA123 or whatever) and the very next thing to do is beg, borrow, steal or pay for an ocean passage of at least 10-12 days.

I've only done short passages mainly due to time constraints but I don't think anyone can understand 20 days at sea until they actually do it.

I'm usually knackered after 12 hours or so. I can't imagine 8 months.

First 24 hours are worst, then it gets easier

A blue water boat would be the one that takes you out to see some blue water In 512-530 St. Brendan of Ireland (he wasn't a saint at the time) is supposed to have sailed from ireland via Iceland an Greenland to North America. Wether it's true or not we'll never know but what's important is that in the late 70's a guy named Tim Severin wanted to prove that it was possible. He built and sailed a boat made out of leather, from Ireland to North America. A blue water boat?

A viking named Leif Eriksson is supposed to have "discovered" North America a couple of hundred years later. Is a viking ship a blue water boat?

The Albin Vega has become quite popular for a small blue water boat lately. Here in Sweden though, it's got a bit of bad reputation, unfair but still. 15 years ago, few would have looked at the Vega as a boat capable of venturing far from the coast. If someone had suggested a trip to the antarctica (has been done in a Vega), he would most likely have ended up in one of those facilities where you wear a funny white jacket and nothing else.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should go do crazy stuff in origami boats, but a blue water boat COULD be just about anything.

/Hampus

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Hampus

In 512-530 St. Brendan of

Originally Posted by Hampus

Ireland

Drunk on Guiness, no doubt!

I thought it was fairly clear that europeans have been to North America ages ago. Isnt there Indian sites in Canada with ruins of European settlements etc

The last thing you want in a bluewater boat is a beamy interior, unless you have a ton of handholds.

Ya get used to it! And if there is nothing labelled Hand Hold then there is still probably something that can suffice

The Swan 65 I was on in some heavy weather we had to wiggle on our bums to get from the main cockpit to the helm cockpit! But is that acceptable because they are Swans?

We drop the saloon table down and have a huge 'day bed' for the person who is on-watch. The off watch gets a whole double berth to themselves, no lee clothes needed! The day bed in bad weather needs a sling around the intenal chain plates.

The ride at sea is definitely the smoothest I have ever had including timber 48 footer with full keel.

The other interesting point to consider is a tradewinds circumnavigation is 90% downwind. Actually more... 95%. Of the 5% to weather theres just a bit of that thats to weather in a gale. So one can quite easily factor in methods in bad weather. Remembering its not a race. One can therefore 'jog' using the engine (going slowly 45 degrees to the wind and waves) like the Alaskan trawlers do; hoving too; or using the parachute anchor earlier than some others may.

These days with the amount of fuel modern crusiers carry 'jogging' may be a great option. Maybe motor sailing with just a smidgon of unfurled genoa and no main at all.

I don't remember seeing any stories of boats breaking up whilst at parachute anchor - light weight, heavy displacement, production or otherwise. I'm sure its happened, but its rare! If the storm is that bad well its just a matter of luck!

You buy what you like. But buying a boat that is seemingly only designed for the rare moment of crashing into a gale with a lot of sail aloft while the other 99% of your time is bereft of comfort is counter intuitive to me.

Where boat seem to become unstuck most often seems to be nav. Plowing into reefs, rocks, beaches. Better, perhaps to spend good money on Nav kit and communications to help avoiding the close inshore bad bits (Aghilus and Gulf stream) in bad weather and the aforementioned hard bits of Mother Earth.


Mark

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Drunk on Guiness, no doubt!

Guiness goes a long way. With enough Guiness aboard I'd cross the Atlantic in a leather boat too!

/Hampus

[s/v Moondancer]

scm007,

Read this... Art and Sea in Provence :: s/v Sean Seamour II - the final log entry

He had a pretty good boat and was there at the right time of the year. It is the best example that I have read of how you must be prepared for anything out in the 'Big Blue Water.' It is also an example of what happens when you are in the Gulf Stream and a northerly hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtrop...m_Andrea_(2007)

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

It is the best example that I have read of how you must be prepared for anything out in the 'Big Blue Water.' It is also an example of what happens when you are in the Gulf Stream and a northerly hits.

The Gulf Stream can be tricky. We have had numerous interesting posts about it.
It can be quite narrow, 30 nm wide. One would wonder at the value of slowing down or using a parachute anchor inside the stream.

If one does, then current best practice is to use a parachute anchor not a drogue or series drogue. Why? Because the boat will b less likely to be knocked down whilst at a parachute anchor.

We must remember that a gulf stream crossing, or an Agulas corrent crossing are NOT normal situations for the coconut run circumnavigatio and must be extreemly carefully done.

I have not crossed it but I have been smacked about a bit off Nova Scottia and the short steep waves there are quite short and quite steep even though the wind isn't all that strong.

It seems at all people in the US and Canada need to cross the Gulf Stream to get to the Caribbean. Take care!!!!!!!!!!!!

A crossing to Europe eastwards is NOT a plesant passage going against the rule of wind up the butt. Getting to the Azores one 'always' gets 1 gale.

There have been many deep keeled, high displacement boats come to greif too.

This one is interesting in the that boat actually did sink. It was not found a week later happily caring for itself.

Water began to accumulate seemingly fed through the stern engine-room air cowls. I believe in retrospect the goosenecks were insufficient with the pitch of larger waves as they were breaking onto the stern.

People often 'run before a storm'. That can be a disaster. A parachute anchor gets the bow to the seas whist giving a drag pattern that stops the waves from breaking.

[Joli]

I don't think anyone wants to be anywhere near a subtropical storm while in the Gulf Stream. The problem is the speed of a subtropical storm, they easily move at 40 knots. Sad story.

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

scm007,

Read this... Art and Sea in Provence :: s/v Sean Seamour II - the final log entry

He had a pretty good boat and was there at the right time of the year. It is the best example that I have read of how you must be prepared for anything out in the 'Big Blue Water.' It is also an example of what happens when you are in the Gulf Stream and a northerly hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtrop...m_Andrea_(2007)

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by scm007

I don't have said skills, but there is no harm in looking ahead is there?

Perfect! As long as you realize you have work to do and tons to learn your golden. Most people work up to the boat they will circumnavigate in, but I can see the savings in buying the boat right off. Do you feel you need a new boat, or would you consider a used boat of possibly higher quality?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Joli

I don't think anyone wants to be anywhere near a subtropical storm while in the Gulf Stream. The problem is the speed of a subtropical storm, they easily move at 40 knots. Sad story.

The average forward speed (propagation) of a tropical cyclone is dependent on the latitude where the storm is currently.
Generally, at less than 30 degrees of latitude, the storms will move at about 15 - 25 mph (13 - 22 kt) on average.
The closer the storm is located the equator, the slower the movement. Some storms will even stall out over an area for an extended period of time. After about 35 degrees North latitude, the storms start to pick up speed.

➥ http://www.irbs.com/bowditch/pdf/chapt36.pdf

[goldsholl]

Thanks very much for clearing up my questions. Unfortunately i have so many
I spoke to a Bovarian Salesman for the hell of it and he mentioned their 47
I think and he used the word production and it brought to mind more questions. The term is self explanatory and angles to the inferior. The prospect i am engaging is that i am searching for a boat i can basically live on and tour the caribean and perhap take passengers. The older boats I see for sale look like they could easily be money pits waiting to be replaced by the seller with a new sleek shiny prize and you just paid alot for a problem.
THe confusion here is that by your answer, you kind of indicated that some of those older boats are actually built better and can absorb more punishment from the sea. I can imagine that getting in the middle of a storm is as easy as finding you don't have milk in the frige. The prospect of being in the thick of a storm that throws you around is damn scary to me and im thinking that the choice of a boat is everything. That said i have seen hunters on line and can tell they look like mobile homes. Not my choice. The beneteau and and the bovaria are high on the list but of course for a five or ten year old model thanks to finances. I plan to pay cash and don't want to deal with a mortgage interfering with the already chalenging life on the water.\

BTW,, can i operate a 46 boat singlehanded?

please feel free to set me straight.
kindly

michael
longbeach MS

[nautical62]

Originally Posted by Hampus

?

..A viking named Leif Eriksson is supposed to have "discovered" North America a couple of hundred years later. Is a viking ship a blue water boat?...

Yes, they regularly used such boats for blue water voyages. (Mainland Europe to Iceland and Greenland and elsewhere.) They were also willing to take risks and subject themselves to discomfort that most modern day pleasure cruisers would rather not face.

[CharlieCobra]

Recently, the remains of one Coronado 25 and one Female body washed up near Grays Harbor on the Washington coast. Would I take a Coronado 25 offshore? No, certainly not off this coast in October. However, it was said that this boat had sailed to and from Hawaii with this captain before. So who's to say that better luck and timing wouldn't have seen this boat make it to the South Pacific as they'd planned?

[Curmudgeon]

I believe that with boats, as with just about everything else in life, you get what you pay for (with very few exceptions).

If you are going offshore, your life, and the lives of your crew, may be at risk. How much are those lives worth?

Maybe for a few years the unexpected won't happen and a less well-built and well equipped boat will suffice. If you want to take that gamble, I wish you luck.

[andreas.mehlin]

I wouldn´t say there are too many bluewater boats circumnavigating compared to non-bluewater. Most of the boats I saw were line production boats. On of ten or one of 15 were steelboats.

But...
You can always improve boats...heavier rigging and so on.


/Andreas
Crossed the Pacific in a 30ft Endeavourcat (coastal cruiser)
7Hav.se

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by goldsholl

Thanks very much for clearing up my questions. Unfortunately i have so many
I spoke to a Bovarian Salesman for the hell of it and he mentioned their 47
I think and he used the word production and it brought to mind more questions. The term is self explanatory and angles to the inferior. The prospect i am engaging is that i am searching for a boat i can basically live on and tour the caribean and perhap take passengers.

Production boats should not be considered as inferior - they just aren't designed to meet the needs of what the majority of people looking to sail for extended periods of time offshore would be looking for in a boat.
They are however, specifically designed for what you want to do - a comfortable home for coastal cruising.