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zeehag · 18-04-2013, 11:00

i have the history of this boat's entire life in my booklet that came with this boat--has had several surveys, and there have been many owners, the last of which , before the bad refit, laid this boat over on the santa barbara breakwall in his drunkenness..he is now the owner of a restaurant in one of the towns i visited..lol...is not always best to learn that which has occurred with your boat, unless you ae prepared to repair it correctly, which doesnt cost much money , if done correctly.

these formosan built boats all have the same reputation--including hans christian--they all have sam problems, whch ar e overcomable.
i have also done suervey n clorox bottles--i woul dmuch ratyher take the heavy formosa built boat to sea than a clorox bottle, but folks each have their own beliefs.

spreading bad rumors around about any marque is not acceptable--even whenye say that a clipper marine is rendered by uscg as unsafe in any water, inclusive of a bathtub--kinda like a corvair, only for water--but the corvair was built decent----
and catalinas cannot sail around the world...things like that , phrases of complete falsehood...need to become history, not current usage.
there are bad things about all marques..but some are actually easily repaired, such a formosa and ct and seawolf--everything is easily repaired and straight forward--not kinked up into the smallest space possible--that means a lot insofar as repairs is concerned, both at sea and in port.....
i would much rathewr be in middle of ocean with a failing packing gland on a boat like mine, wherein it is not scerunched into a wee small tiny place unable to be repaired underway, as opposed to the ease of access which is awesome inmy formosa 41, ct 41s and seawolf 41s..makes the passage successfull instead of losing boat in mid-ocean due to inability to catch any leak which may spring up while underway......so what if there once was a deck leak--aint none now--and if there was, easily repaired.

these taiwanese boats are more readily repaired and easier to repair than those white plastic all look alike boats of today in which one must be an intrautero trained neonatal monkey in order to fix.
unsinking a modern day clorox bottle is not as easy as repairing my brick...big difference between losing boat due to bad design and being able to repair at sea because designer was designing a boat meant f or cruising. and they still are meant for cruising.
rodlmao.....
liam--mine isnt better--is just different, as are each and every single formosa and ct and seawolf, as they were made in taiwan. not production boats..not production parts, either.

difference between losing and cruising is the ease of repair specific to the boat you choose. the formosa/ct/seawolf 41 is easy to fix,has easy access to the important things that do break underway--makes it a good choice for cruising. and by now,all the bs that folks whine about and cry over in the leaky teakies is already fixed..lol...and if it isnt, is no big deal to repair.

Stu Jackson · 18-04-2013, 11:04

Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook has some very good observations on the features of cruising boats, specifically the advantages and disadvantages of certain belowdecks layouts. Might be worth your while to read it.

Mike OReilly · 18-04-2013, 11:30

I'll chime as another owner of a Taiwan built 1977 "pirate ship." I'd happily compare my Rafiki's build quality to any out there.

As we're constantly reminded by owners of Hunters, Beneteaus and Jeanneaus, sweeping generalizations about the quality of a wide swaths of boats are often wrong.

zeehag · 18-04-2013, 11:36

by the way---i have watched folks buy brand new sailboats fro cruising,and take 5 yrs to "ready it"for cruising..
\lol.
..mine is seaworthy and derelict to look at--not a problem-it aint what it looks like, is how it works...yeah stuff is broken, so what--makes it a lot less frustrating than when the brand new out of the box boat breaks down and cannot be repaired at sea...
.try to make a warranty call out in mid-ocean...
rodlmao....
..omg, what a surprise--repairs at sea are not considered in the newer boats, whereas they were in older cruising boats... go figger.

Tim R. · 18-04-2013, 11:40

If you have IP on your list you should also check out Caliber. Similar to IP but prettier(subjective) and faster(proven). We have lived aboard our 40LRC for 2.5 years now and are very comfortable. We love just about everything about the boat including the performance. Her gelcoat color is similar enough to an IP that IP owners sometimes confuse us for one until we blow by them upwind sailing 5° closer to the wind.

Let me know if you would like more info.

Luigi3188 · 18-04-2013, 17:46

Hello,

Thanks to all of you for the feedback and input. Last December we went to Holland Michigan to look at an IP 42. It is a beautiful boat. It was immaculate. I couldn't find a bit of dust let alone any wear and tear. The interior is well laid out and seemed huge. So big that I easily imagined my wife falling from starboard to port in all that space.

Next to it was a boat I have always been in love with, a Pacific Seacraft 40. It had gear and stuff strewn about and was $40,000 more though a year older.

When I stood behind the wheel of the IP and looked out over the deck I could imagine myself at the helm. It was an impressive feeling.

Still, I read that the PS will sail closer to the wind and have an easier movement in a blow. It's much tighter inside so there are more things to hold onto and it's harder to imagine that fall from starboard.

This is so much fun and so important to get right...

Brad

**Jim Cate** · 18-04-2013, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDabs

With the Island Packet, you'll get 2 heads, which is pretty rare for a 38 ft. cruiser.

It is not clear whether you consider this feature a plus or a minus!

IMO having two heads on a 38 foot (or anything much less than ~50+ feet) is a colossal waste of space. Most folks who are actually cruising, and whose boats have two heads use one for storage... and it isn't very convenient or efficient storage with that porcelain thing in the way!

Cheers,

Jim

jdragon · 18-04-2013, 19:34

IP 380s have only one head. I can sail with any Caiber of the same size, and with a shallower draft I and able to go where they can't. But I love Calibers. There are hand holds everywhere on an IP and in heavy seas I have always been find one to grab unlike other boats. All of the boats are great. It a mater of finding which one you feel right in

Rakuflames · 18-04-2013, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

It is not clear whether you consider this feature a plus or a minus!

IMO having two heads on a 38 foot (or anything much less than ~50+ feet) is a colossal waste of space. Most folks who are actually cruising, and whose boats have two heads use one for storage... and it isn't very convenient or efficient storage with that porcelain thing in the way!

Cheers,

Jim

I would rather have one slightly larger one and not bang my elbows.

**Jim Cate** · 18-04-2013, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I would rather have one slightly larger one and not bang my elbows.

Well, yes!

Some years ago a close friend and his wife were boat shopping in the mid thirties range. The wife was a big lady, six feet tall and robust. Went into the head on a prospect boat, closed the door, sat upon the pot. The compartment was so small that she became wedged in, knees against the door, bum squashed against the lid and outboard "wall" . Couldn't escape on her own -- they had to remove some hinges to get the door open... didn't buy that one!

So I think your point is quite valid! The ultimate folly (to me) are the charter designs with 3 or even 4 "en-suite" heads. Madness for a cruising boat.

Cheers,

Jim

Rakuflames · 18-04-2013, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, yes!

Some years ago a close friend and his wife were boat shopping in the mid thirties range. The wife was a big lady, six feet tall and robust. Went into the head on a prospect boat, closed the door, sat upon the pot. The compartment was so small that she became wedged in, knees against the door, bum squashed against the lid and outboard "wall" . Couldn't escape on her own -- they had to remove some hinges to get the door open... didn't buy that one!

So I think your point is quite valid! The ultimate folly (to me) are the charter designs with 3 or even 4 "en-suite" heads. Madness for a cruising boat.

Cheers,

Jim

I'll tell ya something else -- sailboat heads are a real pain to clean. Lots of tiny places for grunge to gather, and you have to get into ungainly positions to even get to those spots. Then you realize the cleaner is behind you, and you'll have to back out to get it, but there's no room to back out because the space in front of the head is about 14" square. So you have to pull yourself up, turn around, reach the cleaner, turn around again, and then wiggle yourself into that ungainly position.

Then you wonder where the rag is ...

FOUR? No THANK YOU!!!

laika · 18-04-2013, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

It is not clear whether you consider this feature a plus or a minus!

IMO having two heads on a 38 foot (or anything much less than ~50+ feet) is a colossal waste of space. Most folks who are actually cruising, and whose boats have two heads use one for storage... and it isn't very convenient or efficient storage with that porcelain thing in the way!

Cheers,

Jim

Agreed! I was on a 37 foot O'Day with double heads for a year and a half and no one ever once used the second head, yet somehow it still managed to get filthier than hell. Ideal for me in such a boat would be a layout that utilized one head in a space that was simply always accessible to all crew. That space could've been used for any number of much better alternatives.

Tim R. · 19-04-2013, 06:23

We have two heads on our Caliber 40 but we do use both of them. The master suite head is in the forepeak which makes for a very bouncy ride in any significant seas. We use that head at anchor and guest head at the base of the companionway when it is needed. It is also nice to have a separate head for guests and as a spare when one needs repair. It is not huge and we do use it for storage but just as a hanging locker and some small items that can easily be relocated when needed. This is also a great spot for our dog's food and water bowl. It is also a great place to store footwear. It has a low maintenance/failure Lavac.

As for keeping heads clean, we inform guest that all functions are to be performed sitting down. This makes a big difference in cleanliness.

Caliber performance vs IP is usually determined on sail type. Many Calibers came with in mast furling which definitely affects performance. Our slab reef main makes a big difference.

Rakuflames · 19-04-2013, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by laika

Agreed! I was on a 37 foot O'Day with double heads for a year and a half and no one ever once used the second head, yet somehow it still managed to get filthier than hell. Ideal for me in such a boat would be a layout that utilized one head in a space that was simply always accessible to all crew. That space could've been used for any number of much better alternatives.

Yeah -- MORE STORAGE!!!