Catalina 27, troubles, upgrades, and enhancements?

[ben2go]

I am looking at a Catalina 27 with an Atomic bomb gasser, standard keel, and standard rig. The boat looks rough and needs a good cleaning. It seems to be solid but I haven't been able to dig into it. I am aware of some of the issues with bulkheads, chain plates, and soft decks. This boat will be a weekend and occasional vacation boat for now.



Since I will have to spruce her up, what enhancements and upgrades would you consider doing? I already have a line on a 2 cyl 18 hp Beta/Kubota diesel upgrade. I may have found the tall mast and boom. I have to go measure it. I'm going to be inland on lakes and then moving to the coast. I know about the changes in anodes. I have no plans to go off shore so no need for a full on chart plotter. Navionics on a dedicated tablet with phone back up and handheld GPS just in case. I'm thinking maybe VHF with AIS, quality depth sounder, wind instrument. KISS principle on the electrics. I'm looking at either a Nature's Head or a cassette toilet. Cooking I'm thinking non pressurized alcohol stove. Food/drink storage something like a DC chest fridge, Engel.


Any ideas?

[rickmartyn]

That seems like a big list of upgrades for a Catalina 27.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^

I'd have to agree with the above. IMO you would be better served by finding a boat that someone else had made the upgrades on and, as a result, had to accept the fact that they didn't add very much to the market value. Doing things like replacing the rig with the slightly taller one add zero to the value and yet cost a fair amount to accomplish (don't forget new sails to fit the new rig!). Ditto the engine replacement... perhaps even more so.

Just an opinion, but one based on a fair amount of experience.

Jim

[thomm225]

You can buy Catalina 27's all day long ready to go for like $4,000 -$8,000.

Is it that this boat is already at the lake?

Also a hand held VHF is fine for sailing on a lake and no need for AIS as there probably aren't any ships to worry about.

If the boat has soft decks, needs and engine, AND a different mast and boom that is almost a total rebuild

Also many Catalina 27 use outboards which you can buy a brand new one for less than the cost of a used diesel

[ben2go]

You guys are making good points. I'll have $2000 in getting the boat, about $2000 in the engine, $500 in the mast/boom, $1000 for the electronics, and another $500 for misc... Around $6000 all in. I don't mind the work. That's nothing new. I won't count the stuff I can move from boat to boat or use off the boat like the tablet and Engel fridge. I would use those in other situations.


Catalina 27 prices are all over the place for the first years that had inboard engines. I've seen as low as $2000 and as high as $35,000 but that boat was loaded with amenities for island hopping the Bahamas and Caribbean.

[Jammer]

How long are you going to keep the boat. You will not get your money back for any of this stuff. If this is really the kind of boat you want and you're going to keep it for 5-10 years, great. If it's a starter boat for you and you don't know what you don't know then don't upgrade anything unless you really have to.

Originally Posted by ben2go

Navionics on a dedicated tablet with phone back up and handheld GPS just in case.

Pick any one of those and then have some paper charts and a compass.

I'm thinking maybe VHF with AIS, quality depth sounder, wind instrument. KISS principle on the electrics.

That isn't KISS.


The AIS will not be of any use on inland lakes and will be of very limited practical benefit coastwise, because most vessels don't broadcast AIS and you don't have radar.


You do want a depth sounder but get a cheap one and install it inside the hull.


Wind instruments are hugely expensive. Not necessary unless you are racing or sailing at night. You can get a handheld instrument if you're just trying to learn what a 5kt, 10 kt, 15 kt, etc wind feels like.

I'm looking at either a Nature's Head or a cassette toilet. Cooking I'm thinking non pressurized alcohol stove. Food/drink storage something like a DC chest fridge, Engel.

Cassette toilet will work and is the cheapest and easiest to get started with.


Non pressurized alcohol stoves are getting harder to find. Consider exactly how much and what kind of cooking you're going to do. Look at the Gas One portable camp stove. It uses small butane canisters and while there is a safety concern aboard the practical track record has been very good.


DC chest fridge, I have an Alpicool one, much cheaper and works fine, experience of others has also been very good overall. Be sure you think about how you are going to power it and how long you will be away from the dock.



Things you haven't mentioned that are perhaps more important than those you have:

• Standing rigging if not known to have been replaced in the last 20 years
• Running rigging - allow $1000 just to replace lines. If you have wire halyards you may want to change out sheaves and use modern low-stretch rope instead
• Sails - most older boats come with sails that are shot. Boats with blown out sails, sail like crap.
• Good solid swim ladder if not already equipped
• Rebedding deck fittings and fixing leaky portlights/hatches

[MIRELOS]

Catalina 27 is a good coastal cruiser, was my first boat and I learned a lot on her. Easy to sail and kinder than what I was told. Sailed from NYC to Boston in November (to trade her), novice mistakes I did not check the weather window and was caught by a fierce Noreaster....made it no breaks, no problems. Good boat but will you get back what you put in her in expenses?..your decision

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by ben2go

I am looking at a Catalina 27 with an Atomic bomb gasser, standard keel, and standard rig. The boat looks rough and needs a good cleaning. It seems to be solid but I haven't been able to dig into it. I am aware of some of the issues with bulkheads, chain plates, and soft decks. This boat will be a weekend and occasional vacation boat for now.

I have been over every square inch of a C27

Keel bolts are your biggest concern. Inspect the bilge then pull the boat out and look for the Catalina smile. Personally I would never own another C27 after what I saw. High carbon steel keel bolts that will have frequent salt water on then is just planed obsolescence. I wouldn't trust them even if the tops of the bolts look brand new. Pull the keel and inspect and replace with silicone bronze or 304/316

Your bulk heads might have rot towards the bottom and the deck in the head just above the bulkheads. Water gets in from the step and seeps between the core.

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by ben2go

You guys are making good points. I'll have $2000 in getting the boat, about $2000 in the engine, $500 in the mast/boom, $1000 for the electronics, and another $500 for misc... Around $6000 all in. I don't mind the work. That's nothing new. I won't count the stuff I can move from boat to boat or use off the boat like the tablet and Engel fridge. I would use those in other situations.


Catalina 27 prices are all over the place for the first years that had inboard engines. I've seen as low as $2000 and as high as $35,000 but that boat was loaded with amenities for island hopping the Bahamas and Caribbean.

Standing rigging ?

[SV__Grace]

Since anchoring is high on our priority list and the C27 has a ridiculously small, ill designed, offset bow roller, one of our best upgrades was to have a custom bow roller fabricated to center the stronger, more robust roller, accommodate our roller furling/forestay and allow a Rocna or other anchor to be securely kept on the bow.

Cost us $500. and considered it money well spent. Photos attached.


P.S. if you want to KISS this boat doesn't need an inboard engine, a 9.9 outboard powers it just fine and allows for more interior space. Personally I wouldn't want an inboard on a boat this small.

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Since anchoring is high on our priority list and the C27 has a ridiculously small, ill designed, offset bow roller, one of our best upgrades was to have a custom bow roller fabricated to center the stronger, more robust roller, accommodate our roller furling/forestay and allow a Rocna or other anchor to be securely kept on the bow.

Cost us $500. and considered it money well spent. Photos attached.


P.S. if you want to KISS this boat doesn't need an inboard engine, a 9.9 outboard powers it just fine and allows for more interior space. Personally I wouldn't want an inboard on a boat this small.

What he said

[MatthLE]

Hello;

Cat 27 is a sweet sailor, had one in Puget sound. As purchased was engine removed and 10 horse outboard equipped. Always thankful for the extra space, never considered replacing the diesel.

Respectfully
Lem

[OldManMirage]

I have owned 2 Catalina 27's, a 1972 outboard/dinette model that we lived on for 2 1/2 years, and a 1976 inboard, I can't remember what engine was in her.

The outboard will really outperform the inboard, I would really recommend you consider the outboard. The difference was very noticeable. Pull that A4 out, mount a good hi-lo bracket on the stern and get a decent 8hp outboard. Its more than enough to power that boat, and the sailing will be WAY better. The only reason I would put a diesel in her was if I had to motor long distances to get where I could sail.

You don't really need the tall rig. The true tall rig also had a little bowsprit. But really, the boat sails extremely well with a standard rig. Spend the money on new sails instead, that is a much better value for your money. If you really want sailing performance, stick with hank on jibs, and get a gennaker or a spinakker or big drifter for light air work.

Definitely haul out and check the keel joint, and the condition of the keel bolts. Also, look close at the aft lower stays and where they attach to the deck. Consider adding a bigger backing plate, either stainless or wood, they end up taking a lot of stress. Pay attention to NOT over-tightening the rigging.

The KISS principle is good. As someone has already said, a decent handheld VHF is fine for almost all inland and coastal work. If you find you need more you can always add it later.

Your ideas on cooking and refrig are great. And if you leave out the diesel, you can stick a lot of stuff in the space, like a portable grill !

But really consider the outboard. The difference in sailing is just hard to imagine unless you've had both - like me !

Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Since anchoring is high on our priority list and the C27 has a ridiculously small, ill designed, offset bow roller, one of our best upgrades was to have a custom bow roller fabricated to center the stronger, more robust roller, accommodate our roller furling/forestay and allow a Rocna or other anchor to be securely kept on the bow.

Cost us $500. and considered it money well spent. Photos attached.


P.S. if you want to KISS this boat doesn't need an inboard engine, a 9.9 outboard powers it just fine and allows for more interior space. Personally I wouldn't want an inboard on a boat this small.

That is indeed a beautiful piece of work. Really nice !!!

[csonquist]

Originally Posted by ben2go

I am looking at a Catalina 27 with an Atomic bomb gasser, standard keel, and standard rig. The boat looks rough and needs a good cleaning. It seems to be solid but I haven't been able to dig into it. I am aware of some of the issues with bulkheads, chain plates, and soft decks. This boat will be a weekend and occasional vacation boat for now.



Since I will have to spruce her up, what enhancements and upgrades would you consider doing? I already have a line on a 2 cyl 18 hp Beta/Kubota diesel upgrade. I may have found the tall mast and boom. I have to go measure it. I'm going to be inland on lakes and then moving to the coast. I know about the changes in anodes. I have no plans to go off shore so no need for a full on chart plotter. Navionics on a dedicated tablet with phone back up and handheld GPS just in case. I'm thinking maybe VHF with AIS, quality depth sounder, wind instrument. KISS principle on the electrics. I'm looking at either a Nature's Head or a cassette toilet. Cooking I'm thinking non pressurized alcohol stove. Food/drink storage something like a DC chest fridge, Engel.


Any ideas?

I owned a 27 standard rig in St. Clair next to Detroit. I was a national officer and campaigned the boat under a MORC rating rule. Had some good luck up in Huron between Sarnia and Alpena. Changing the engine serves both safety and maintenance problems. Water over the exhaust riser drowned out the carb and plugs. The old original alcohol stove was a pain. Many of your other ideas have merit. Changing to a tall rig is questionable. It usually is with a short bow sprit about ten inches long. Your local wind strength would be a factor. Good luck. If you get serious I would be glad to talk with you. Chuck Sonqujist