Can project boats be worth it?

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by s.wooster

I don't mind pouring in the time over the next year, but is it worth the money?

Wooster


I bought a moody 376 in august 2000. It had been on the hard for over 3000 days. With a few unknowns..


I spent the next 8 months working on the boat. just about every weekend doing something. time spent at home in the shop. lots of time spent behind the windshield driving from home to the boat. Lots of missed meals with the family.



new cushions, lots of time spent cleaning, new windows, new hatches, new overhead, new running rigging, engine work, electrical, bottom job....


I called it my covid hobby. launched the boat April 2021. since then. new bimini, dodger, sailpack, refinished cabin sole, fix some some spots in the cockpit sole, and normal maintenance. have nearly 1000 miles on the boat tooling around the chesapeake bay.



Was it worth it. yes. time is free. Money...you can't take it with you. I did not go overboard, set a budget for first year refit to get it on the water (not counting insurance and storage) Stuck to it. and got out on the boat and enjoyed.



first year it may not have been in perfect shape, from an aesthetic POV , but it was sound.


As others have mentioned.



Do you want to work on a boat or sail?


not sure where you are located, but the off-season is approaching if you are in the northern latitudes. so you could spend the winter months working and getting ready to sail for the 2023 season.

[MicHughV]

Jim,

You are quite correct.

In the 70's, it was the 20 year older home builder.

Fast forward to today. Retired couple, husband has been "nursing" the "dream" for decades. Much against his wife's will, he splurges his retirement income on the latest and most modern sailboat a broker can sell him. He further spends umpteen thousand dollars to have it outfitted with the latest electronics, solar, genset, a/c, water maker and other stuff.

The boat is a marvel. To date his sailing experience is pretty much zilch.

Finally, the day comes, the weather forecast is good, they untie the docklines and set off.
At the inlet, they are met with a mere 2' chop and a few drops of seawater splash on board. The wife, having never been offshore, panics, and demand the husband turns the boat back.

Reluctantly, he does, his sailing ambitions have hit a brick wall. His boat becomes another dock queen. He'll likely keep it for a short while, so he can come down on the weekends and play with it, but the boat never leaves the dock again.

Down in south Florida, thousands of dock queens can be seen from one end to the other. Eventually, dockage and maintenance becomes a burden, and the boat is put on the market, where it will likely languish for another 12 months before getting sold.

As a side note, marina costs have become exorbitant here. Ditto, boat insurance.

In bygone days, I'd see a lot of sailboats on the move. These days, hardly ever.
Power boats are not immune either.
Add high fuel prices, and you get the picture. At my local marina, there are a plethora of multi-engined fishing boats, most sporting quad 300-350 hp outboards, but they never go anywhere. At somewhere around 100 gal/hr fuel burn x $5/gal, it will cost you $500 just to make it to the inlet. A day's fishing can burn $2000 or more. Even deep pocketed individuals shudder.

Boats...old or new....require time, love and attention.

[Cheechako]

One good thing is Passport made the deck core from 3-4" squares to isolate any water intrusion to limited area. Not sure about the 42 though. I think the 42 was built by a different yard in China, not Taiwan, than the great yard that built the original Passports. The new yard also made the 41... and maybe by the 42 they had changed yards again or the new yard had gotten their learning curve sorted out?

Nothing on that list sounds too big a deal, but it's all about price savings and if you like this sort of thing. As many have said, your repair list will grow immensely once you have the boat... even outside the issues you note.

[MicHughV]

As a final note. The Passport 42 is a very nice boat. A personal favorite of mine.
If I were to tackle any rebuild, the Passport 42 would likely be near the top of my list.

[AKA-None]

My cheap little boat was sailable the first year
Decent sails but needed work but primarily I could sail it
So over the last 6 years I’ve been sailing and fixing
But it’s always been able to sail
Some years splashing was later than desired but each year I could sail it which made it far more enjoyable than spending no time on the water

[Fore and Aft]

S Wooster another question to ask is are you a perfectionist? That to me is really going to determine if you can handle a project boat. I have had a few clients who have spent ridiculous amounts of time making their boat perfect. I am talking fairing the inside of every locker then spray painting them type of fussy. Another client removed his teak deck and it took weeks as he insisted on trying to unscrew every fastening holding the teak down then gently chiselling of the old deck. For them it was more about the enjoyment of the job.
If you're in a relationship then this boat could be a good chance to see if she is a keeper. I met my wife 27 years ago while restoring a 30 foot yacht, not only did she stay but she got stuck in and helped. Plenty of boat projects later she is still keen on boats.
AKA-None has the right idea, I reckon fix the deck and then go sailing. Who knows you might not like the yacht or sailing.
Cheers

[MicHughV]

While I was building my boat, I came across this guy building a rather large boat...52' as I recall. He had been at it for some years when I met him, and is still at it now. 40 some years and counting.
For him, the beauty of his project, is in the building of it. He will never finish it and he doesn't want to finish it, 'cause then he'll need to sail it somewhere and he doesn't want to sail it anywhere.

At present time, in his mind, he has already circumnavigated at least 3 times and done dozens of other voyages.
He always finds one more thing that he has to do to prevent the boat from going anywhere, even though it is in the water now, sans masts.
He must be pushing 80 by now and is still at it. It keeps him going.

I've met a few folk like him. Just messing around with boats is their thing, and I'm totally cool with that.

[thomm225]

So on my $2,000 project boat I just replaced the diesel with an outboard and had a new mainsail made. This in 2011.

Then added a solar panel and replaced the old autopilot and sailed it.

I did very little else for the next 7 years except sail it and add solar.

I wasn't really a project guy back then but I'm learning slowly.

Videos show the boat before I repainted the interior in 2019, replaced the dodger and mainsail cover, bought new LED cabin lamps and shades to replace the dirty curtains, and replaced the cable lifeline with Polyester/Dyneema line

Later still added Victron SmartSolar Controller, golf cart batteries (220 ah), Raspberry Pi and laptop for homemade Opencpn chart plotter with AIS from SH GX 2200

Next will be to replace the rigging.

Then add an AIS Transponder instead of just using the AIS recvr I have now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwQ4iUfiyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3I2zc0_7wY

[kram45]

Building boats require a whole lot of time money and dedication over a long period of time. I remember when my uncle was working on his, it took a lot from him but it was worth the time spent on the boat.

[mvweebles]

Is it worth the money? No. Definitely not. I am at the very tail end of a refit. In the last 5 days, I have spent about $500 on inconspicuous hardware such as general fasteners from McMaster Carr, a lockset for the head door, and some miscellaneous 316 SS hinges. Also needed two tubes of 4200 UV caulking which was $25/tube at the nearby chandlery. I am about to spend about $3k on upholstery.

There are a lot of hidden costs. For example, if you want to redo the DC, 2/0 cable is about $10/FT. Easy to spend close to $1k on cable and lugs, plus a crimper. Plus cable clamps. It just sll adds up fast. And surprises are inevitable. Even towards end, I had to replace my prop shaft at over $2k.

This doesn't count all the time and yard fees. I have owned my boat for 25 years so it's truly a labor of love. Absent that, it's a money pit. Big time. Would have been cheaper to scuttle it and buy a replacement.

I'm sure it can be done cheaply by cutting corners and living with the results. But these are hard costs and don't include the lost opportunity costs of spending your yoke and effort in a yard instead of doing sulomething else.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Is it worth the money? No. Definitely not. I am at the very tail end of a refit. In the last 5 days, I have spent about $500 on inconspicuous hardware such as general fasteners from McMaster Carr, a lockset for the head door, and some miscellaneous 316 SS hinges. Also needed two tubes of 4200 UV caulking which was $25/tube at the nearby chandlery. I am about to spend about $3k on upholstery.

There are a lot of hidden costs. For example, if you want to redo the DC, 2/0 cable is about $10/FT. Easy to spend close to $1k on cable and lugs, plus a crimper. Plus cable clamps. It just sll adds up fast. And surprises are inevitable. Even towards end, I had to replace my prop shaft at over $2k.

This doesn't count all the time and yard fees. I have owned my boat for 25 years so it's truly a labor of love. Absent that, it's a money pit. Big time. Would have been cheaper to scuttle it and buy a replacement.

I'm sure it can be done cheaply by cutting corners and living with the results. But these are hard costs and don't include the lost opportunity costs of spending your yoke and effort in a yard instead of doing sulomething else.

It depends.

Agree projects often are a money pit, but to buy new or used is often hugely expensive too, occasionally much more than a project + parts.

We are somewhere in the middle with ours, but the project let us spread the expenses over time. (I'd never take out a loan for something like a boat.)

The big issue is resale value. Most project boats you can only sell as project, even if they are complete from your point of view.
So overall it may be more expensive.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by s.wooster

I am strongly considering buying a Passport 42 that will at the very least need the following:

• Replace Teak Deck w/ Glass + Awlgrip.
• Standing Rigging
• Running Rigging
• Nav equipment
• Unmounting the Pulpit and bringing to a machine shop to have a bend righted. Fixing damaged fiberglass where pulpit mounts to deck.

I would plan to do all of the work myself with the exception of the standing rigging. I would certainly get a professional marine survey before purchasing the boat to ensure there are no other major projects (outside of the norm). The boat does come with a brand new engine (less than 40 hours), has sails in good condition, and has a good interior in need of some light finish work.

snip

What advice do you all have?

That is not a 'project boat' - ask GiLow what a 'project boat is
Four of the items in that list you can knock over in a fortnight.

The teak deck? Allow another three or four.

Just make sure there are no hidden surprises.

Seek advice re the teak decks on that class of boat.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

That is not a 'project boat' - ask GiLow what a 'project boat is

Dunno what you mean… but yeah, I laughed out loud when I saw that list.

[Jolly Roger]

Having nearly come to the end of a ten-year restoration and modification of a Down East 45, I agree with all that has been written, with only one other question. How much are you expecting to pay for this boat?
I bought mine for less than half the asking price, and that was pretty low to start with. If you do all the work yourself, you can probably keep it within reasonable bounds, but all the other factors, and surprises, that others have mentioned are important as well.
It also depends on how far you want to go, and what you want to finish up with.
Keep meticulous records on an excel spreadsheet, because one day you will want to sell her.
By the way, if you think replacing the standing rigging is beyond your scope, how about changing the complete rig, from a ketch to a squaresail schooner, and installing a full-size bath/hot tub?
I found an unusual method of financing some of the costs. I write articles about my many projects, which are now published in boating magazines in four countries. If you have a bent for writing it can be both rewarding, and a history of all the things you have done to restore the boat.
Read some of the way-out stuff on my website—then just get on with it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Being only three years in, on the sailboat learning curve, I’m happy working on the project and learning as I go. Fixing broken crap is a wonderful way to learn all about it. I can’t imagine how it could be if I’d bought a perfect boat with everything on it working. How would I know what any of that stuff was? What if it broke? Thankfully I don’t have this confusing problem since all my stuff came pre-broken and ready to fix up. Win win.

Most people don’t learn. They pay people.