Buying a Boat Angel

[tbodine88]

Ebay knows I want another boat.


So they are sending me ad's



One of which is for a San Juan 30 in Michigan from Boat Angel



The Price is $504.00.



But the Provisios are you can't inspect it, must buy it as is where is.


The previous owner says the motor runs, but...


I am wondering how handy one must be to successfully buy a boat like this sight unseen and go sailing with in a few months ?

[ChrisJHC]

Can’t see any red flags there!

If you’re handy enough to take on a project that will almost certainly be a complete rebuild, you might be better off building a new boat from scratch.

[Wotname]

I would say you need to be handy enough to earn the thousands of extra dollars which will be needed to 'go sailing with in a few months'. There is nothing so expensive as cheap boat.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by tbodine88

Ebay knows I want another boat.


So they are sending me ad's



One of which is for a San Juan 30 in Michigan from Boat Angel



The Price is $504.00.



But the Provisios are you can't inspect it, must buy it as is where is.


The previous owner says the motor runs, but...


I am wondering how handy one must be to successfully buy a boat like this sight unseen and go sailing with in a few months ?

There are many pictures of the boat, if they are recent, I see a racer/cruiser (with emphasis on racer) that looks to be in fairly good shape for a 46 year old.

San Juan's have a good reputation for being fairly well built, though there is some evidence in the pictures of a hull/deck joint leak, but this could also just be an artefact of the humid environment inside a closed boat. The chain plates shown don't show any obvious signs of problems.

The Atomic 4 gas engine is not, to me, a selling point, but it is not a deal-breaker either.

If the boat is as shown and represented, 1000.00 would be a good price.
If it is not as represented, Boat Angel is very specific in how to obtain a refund.

My question would be how you're going to get it from Michigan to Texas.

I wouldn't be surprised if the boat wasn't sailable as is, though I don't think I'd venture far into Lake Michigan of far down the Mississippi without hauling, or at least diving the hull, dependent on the shape of the exposed part of the keel bolts, and the state of the bilge. One of the pictures shows some of primary electrical system, and it's configuration and condition lend confidence to the expected overall reasonable condition of the rest of the vessel.

Certainly you'll be spending money on it, but you'd likely be doing that on any 'budget' vessel; depending on your needs and projected usage, it could be a good deal.

Of course, given the boat market climate, you could find a boat in much better shape for free, a la https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ts-240058.html, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that...

[flyingfin]

Bid scrap value based on stainless rigging and aluminum spars, then deduct landfill fee for hull disposal. If you win the bid and it is a pearl, you won. If you win the bid and its a turd, you covered your loss.

[roverhi]

Bought a 30' boat from Boat Angel. I'd seen the boat though only in passing as it was on another finger pier and never really inspected it so had no idea of the condition of the engine, sails, interior, etc. Made them a mid three figure offer I knew would get outbid but didn't. Boat turned out to have a working A-4, trashed fuel and water tanks, a foil headstay, hydraulic back stay tensioner and 5 bags of sails. A serviceable main, one trashed laminated sail, another in decent shape and a brand new, never been used sail from a major sailmaker and an ok spinnaker with gear. Boat was a semi custom IOR race boat from a BIG NAME designer, sailed well, and was still competitive in beer can races.

Bought the boat with the idea of doing the Single Handed TransPac and selling it in the islands after but the race equipment requirements were out of sight so gave that up. It was my third boat and wife was not happy with me. Sold it after a couple of months for what i had in it after getting most of the 'issues' fixed.

[acem]

My brother in law bought a 27ft sailboat angel in Maryland. He had ridden in a sailboat decades ago and is decent shade tree mechanic but he is a can do kinda guy.

When he got there the motor was unrepaireable and the sails were falling apart. The electricals were inoperable so no radio, gps, etc. He bought a solar charger for his smart phone.

He bought a used set of sails that were close enough to work and set off.

Another boat pulled him out into Chesapeake bay and he was headed for the Caribbean! He was going along when a navy patrol boat approached telling him to get out of the area. He complied, they had big guns. He guessed a sub was leaving but without a radio he was effectively deaf. He then continued out into the Atlantic ocean.

With no charts or other knowledge he planned to head down the coast. He didn't realize the gulf stream was so strong and the problems it would cause. Somewhere in North Carolina he got on the intercoastal waterway. He used Google maps on his phone for navigation but that didn't give depth so he grounded often.

After a few months he ran out of money and practically gave the boat away.

He had alot of fun and spent less than many do on a week long vacation!

Bottom line is they will be project boats. Be prepared to repair anything you want to function. Do you want a project boat is the big question.

Thx-Ace

[dcstrng]

Bought a B24 through Boat Angel for $600 -- be prepared to do a lot of the paperwork the previous owner didn't and of course, expect the unexpected on the vessel... but, having said that, our purchase had no surprises that a DIYer couldn't handle, but the only inspection we could do was view the boat by camera telephoto lens... Found Boat Angel straightforward to deal with, but in our case the owners were unsupportive and we had to appeal to the government to get the title (which also worked, but...).

[dennismenace111]

I bought a charity donation boat a couple big years ago! Sight unseen! Won the bid on Ebay! Drove over to Cape Coral, Fl. Out new batteries and a new impeller in the engine! Stoked up food and ice! The next day my brother and I started off on journey to bring her home to Miami!

The engine quit within the first 30 minutes! The fuel tank had a lot of water! It would run for 8 to 20 hours in the calm waters of the Caloosahatchee waterway. The ICW was a different story!

5 days later we made it home! Pumped out the fuel in the tank and let it sit for 3 days undisturbed so the water would settle. The carefully pumped the good fuel to a couple of clean Gerry cans. Poured that fuel back into the boat using a BAJA FILTER. I installed a new Racor fuel filter.

Two years later, and no fuel problems! No other major problems with the boat! The bottom was even clean when I picked it up!

[Heathenly Twins]

They're basically saying the boat has major issues but in different words. If the boat was any good, it would be selling for a lot more via a more conventional process. Unless you're loaded with money, time and skills and love wasting them all on a junk boat, I vote on walking away.

Whenever you have a seller trying to avoid due diligence, there is always a reason, just walk; it's a buyer's market.

You can buy a well kept boat from a good sailor who is simply unable to continue owning a boat. You'll pay pennies on the dollar for everything instead of paying full price for new stuff on an old boat.

[VBsail]

I will share some of my boat angle experience.

I bought one through boat angel in 2016 and had a somewhat OK experience and almost a second in 2017 and had a terrible experience.

Both times the sellers were great honest people who didn't need the money and thought they were helping a charity. When I bought the first one baot angel sent me a "Donkey Ollie" DVD. I thought it was a joke so looked it up. To keep the charity money instead of donating it they formed a "charity production company" and use all the charity money from boat angel to pay themselves. https://www.donkeyollie.com/

When you win they send you a book sized contract which basically says there is no possible way to get any money back no matter what happens. You pay the $300 fee and your purchase price and they send you the sellers phone number. You contact the seller and go through a process as if you bought off craigslist. My first boat did not have a trailer title even though the listing said it did. Angel said that not all states use titles (so they put in the listing it has one.) Told me the donor is supposed to have cleared it in their home state before donating, so not their responsibility to confirm it actually has a title, its the donor/buyers problem, no their fault. Said they did their part and I would sacrifice all fees and they would relist the boat if I did not remove the boat.

OK, I figured, still got a good deal take it and move on.

The second boat I almost bought was at a marina I recognized. A seaward 25. So I drove by the marina when it was listed and the owner happed to be there at the boat. Great guy, in his upper 80s, change in life plans moving inland so wife convinced him to list it for "charity" vs selling it. Boat was in good shape and cleaned up worth maybe 15k, realistically should have went for around 3-5k via auction the way it looked in the pics and description. Spent a few hours with the owner going over it and securing it since a hurricane was coming and he invited me back to his house to show me all the paperwork for the boat including over 10k in receipts including a brand new inboard diesel and the original title.

First auction I only had zero feedback bidders (boat angel) bidding against me after $1500 and I would not put in a high bid. They ended the auction minutes before the end. I called and they said it was because of the hurricane when the bid was not going up. The following week they had several zero feedback bidders against me bid it up to 10k and not buy, the following week the same again bid to 10k, no buyer. A 4th week same thing. I talked with the owner several more times and he wanted to just sell me the boat directly since he was moving. He called boat angel to end it after 3 consecutive auctions ended without a paying buyer. He had paid 2 months slip fees after sending them all the info waiting for it to be listed, a 3rd month while they kept relisting it, and another was due. When he wanted to end the auction they lectured him about honesty and Christianity. Said they would reimburse him the marina fees after it sold. After another week he called and said he had a buyer with cash ready and they threatened him with suing him and filing criminal charges if he sold the boat directly. They told him to have the buyer call them. I called angel, and they no qualms said they will skip the auction and sell it to me for 10k plus the 300 document fee. When I said no thanks Ill buy it directly from the seller, we already have an agreement and its his boat, they flipped out and threated to file multiple charges against me and him if I touched it. They were literally yelling into the phone and mid sentence hung up. I called the seller back and it was busy, they called him immediately when hanging up on me and threatened him again. When he answered my call he was spitting mad at the whole situation. He agreed to let them list it again. "One final time then I am taking it back no matter what happens" he said. He moved to Georgia while the "last" auction was held. The next week they listed it, bid went 16k. Higher than nice ones listed locally with brokers. Looked like no buyer, but a few days later he called me to say they told him they received the money and would mail him the tax donation paperwork. The buyer was out of state and the boat would be picked up from the marina by a shipping company sometime "soon". He didn't need to do anything else. Seemed ridiculously fishy, but I wished the seller well and my wife made me promise not to call him anymore. The boat continued to sit in the marina, week after week, boat angel never relisted it.

My guess is boat angel knew he wouldn't let them relist it again, so to get in one last jab said it would be picked up so he would keep paying marina fees until he realized a shipper was never coming. I don't know how many more months he paid the marina, but its going on 3 years and the boat still sits there rotting away in the slip untouched.

That's my experience with the "charity" Boat Angel, hopefully someone may find it useful.

[dennismenace111]

Originally Posted by Heathenly Twins

They're basically saying the boat has major issues but in different words. If the boat was any good, it would be selling for a lot more via a more conventional process. Unless you're loaded with money, time and skills and love wasting them all on a junk boat, I vote on walking away.

Whenever you have a seller trying to avoid due diligence, there is always a reason, just walk; it's a buyer's market.

You can buy a well kept boat from a good sailor who is simply unable to continue owning a boat. You'll pay pennies on the dollar for everything instead of paying full price for new stuff on an old boat.

You make a very valid point! At some point that fixer upper, isn't worth putting expensive new gear on! You reach a tipping point where you're really just throwing money away. On the charity boat I bought, it had very good bones and a gorgeous almost new interior. I put alot if work into making the boat safe.

[Catboat Willy]

The most expensive boat I have ever owned was one I got for free. !

[Mike Banks]

That SCREAMS "SCAM!!" to me. But then what would I know? I am the guy who keeps advocating proper lightning protection!!

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by Heathenly Twins

If the boat was any good, it would be selling for a lot more via a more conventional process. Unless you're loaded with money, time and skills and love wasting them all on a junk boat, I vote on walking away...
t.

Probably correct much of the time -- but in our case, the BA sale was a product of a divorce where the parties just weren't talking... one had moved out of the country, or at least the jurisdiction. the boat certianly needed work, but that was no surpise... the paperwork took the biggest amount of patience...

Notwithstanding, any of the charity donations probably has some sort of a history -- as with many boat sales.