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Dr. C. · 18-01-2008, 18:28

What is the best daysailer for around $10K for someone who plans on keeping the boat on a mooring and using a launch service? This would be something for just me and the wife – and maybe a couple of friends – just tooling around the bay up here in Maine.

I’m thinking my priorities are:

Necessary
· “Sit-in” cockpit
· Large cockpit (roomy with 4 people)
· Conveniently deployed motor for power to/from mooring (or in/out of trouble)
· Readily sails offshore – So I’m thinking 22 foot or larger

Desirable, but not necessary (or likely)
· Wheel instead of tiller
· Inboard motor

So far, either a Pearson Ensign or Sea Sprite 23 seem like good fits. Any other ideas?

Thanks!

-Dr. C.

cal40john · 18-01-2008, 20:07

I don't know anything about the Sea Sprite. Our club has 2 Ensigns. This has been a popular boat for sailing on Lake Washington. I have sailed it a few times and thought that it sailed well in light air. The helm balanced nicely even when heeled over in more wind. One thing that I think IMHO is a big drawback is the non self bailing cockpit. I wasn't on the boat, but I saw it take a wave over the bow in Puget Sound which all wound up in the boat. It wasn't anywhere near enough water to be dangerous, but now you have to pump all that water out. Get in some conditions where you are regularly dumping water in the boat and you're bailing all the time. There is foam in the stern and I would have to go back and look to see where else, so there might be enough for positive floatation, but there's a difference between losing your boat to the bottom and having something float high enough that you can bail out. It could be what I saw was an uncommon occurance, maybe someone with more open water experience with the boat will comment.

Our club also has had a Victory 21, Bristol 22, and a Cal 20 (All with self bailing cockpits.) that I know a little about that is similar to what you're looking at, if any of those make your list.

John

Dr. C. · 18-01-2008, 20:57

Although I don't intend to spend time in poor weather, the lack of a self-bailing cockpit on the Ensign does give me a bit of pause.

The Bristol 22 is nice looking, and I like the convenient-looking outboard well. I would be interested in knowing how roomy the cockpit 'feels.'

-Dr. C.

Celestialsailor · 18-01-2008, 22:26

The best piece of daysailor advice anyone could give you is to join a sailing club or a Yacht club if you have to and try the various club daysailors. It will completely change the way you look at them. You can then go ahead and buy one with confidence. A club will also introduce you to like minded folks...good luck

**Boracay** · 18-01-2008, 22:28

I built and sailed a 6.5m (21') Van Der Stadt Mini near Wewak in New Guinea a few years ago.

It is a nice size and very easy to manage.

If you are only planning on sailing in good conditions I would recommend a centreboard/daggerboard boat. Very good for beaching and maintenance and much more comfortable when the water is shallow. Very fast under spinnaker.

The big disadvantage of the 6.5m daggerboard yacht that I encountered was that it totally freaked my then wife out in any but the best conditions. I won't say that it caused marital problems but it did not help.

Unless you are committed to a 22' boat may I suggest that you move up to 27'. This should give you some security against a knock down, an internal head and headroom.

The increase in cost should be very modest.

cal40john · 19-01-2008, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. C.

Although I don't intend to spend time in poor weather, the lack of a self-bailing cockpit on the Ensign does give me a bit of pause.

The Bristol 22 is nice looking, and I like the convenient-looking outboard well. I would be interested in knowing how roomy the cockpit 'feels.'

-Dr. C.

It's been a few years since the club owned the Caravelle (Bristol 22). I remember the cockpit being reasonably large. This boat does have more of a cabin than something like the Ensign that only has a cuddy cabin, so the cockpit can't be as large. I seem to remember that you feel pretty secure because the coamings are quite tall, so you feel more like you're inside the cockpit than you do on other boats of that size. The Caravelle was the less popular keelboat in our club I believe because it was a bit slower than the other keelboat the club had at the time. It was an unfair comparison though, as the other boat was an Islander Excalibur 26. Four feet longer, deeper keel, sail area to displacement of 20 versus 16 for the Caravelle. Puget Sound being quite often a light air area makes you appreciate a higher SA/D. The other problem with sail area was at the other end of the spectrum, I felt the boat was slightly tender. The storm jib was not a sail that was left rotting in the bilge. Admittedly the next sail size down from the lapper was the storm jib on our boat, but I never really felt that the jump down was excessive.
Our boat had worked all the sealant out of the hull deck seam. Someone tried to run a bead of sealant on the inside as a repair, you can guess how long that lasted. The outward turned hull and deck flanges were held together by staples, I believe around 1/8th" diameter. We ground off the flange and glassed the boat together, didn't leak, but we never managed to do a decent fairing job on it.
I tend to point out deficiencies, but I had several nice weekend sails on Puget Sound and many nice daysails on the lake with this boat. I knew someone who owned one, and she was happy with hers.
I agree with the person who suggested joining a club. I sailed in my club for 10 years before I felt the need to have my own boat. I have a hard time imagining trying to select a boat when you had only sailed maybe a friend's boat and then your test sail to buy.

Caravelle on Lake Washington

John

Morgan Paul · 19-01-2008, 05:31

Hi Dr.C
Cape Dory Typhoon

From what I understand this could be a good deal.
Good luck.

Sailing IS a blast!
Paul

SkiprJohn · 29-01-2008, 19:51

Aloha Dr. C.,
Hope you've found your boat. If you haven't then you ought to look at the advertised Sabre 32 for $5K right here on the forum. Very fast, small interior but could accomodate four. Fun boat. If I were on the East Coast I'd buy it.
Just a suggestion. Look under advertisements here on this forum.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

Moonchaser2304 · 29-01-2008, 20:33

Catalina's are everywhere. You may want to see if there are any used Catalina 22's with fixed (non swing) keel if you want security in tall water....or dont want the keel movement on the swing bolt if you are on a mooring...or a swing keel if you dont intend to lay the mast in the water as a normal course of action, or are moored in calm water. About 1987 started the "MK II" which is much "newer" look and feel. These boats have great cockpits, are stable, and have lots of owner support and parts....even fleets for racing sometimes. Like said in other posts (however) if you want taller than "bend over" headroom other than the pop top, you'll need to go at least to a 25', then you get a head too, not just a porti potty.

SkiprJohn · 30-01-2008, 09:45

Dr. C.,
Just in case you missed it you can click here.

Selling my 1965 Columbia Sabre $5000
This sounds like a big boat but is a daysailer/racer. Beam is only 6'3" and the sails are small enough for singlehanding easy enough. I'm in no way connected to this boat but have found them intriguing ever since seeing them advertised in the S.F. are years ago.
Good luck in your search and let us know what you are looking at. There certainly will be many opinions. I had a great little Catalina 22 fixed keel that I truly enjoyed but would get something a bit larger if I were to do it again at this later age.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

Dr. C. · 09-02-2008, 13:53

Thanks for the great ideas. Along with SkiprJohn, Moonchaser and BoraCay, I tend to agree that I would like more boat. My fantasy boat would be something like the Herreshoff Alerion 26 (http://www.yachtworld.com/properyachts/properyachts_3.html). A fearless daysailer with minimal overnighting amenities seems the ideal fit, since the wife is not much of a 'camper.' She would rather tool back to the mooring, hit the bar at the marina, and sleep in our own bed. Are there 1960s/1970s plastic boats that resemble the Alerion setup?

I probably will take the advice folks have given and join a club or two (I’ve started by buying lunch for folks I know that own yachts, already) -- but I'm definitely buying a boat. The wife is really excited about it, and we’re starting to talk about making a family. Better grab one while I can!

The Columbia Sabre idea is interesting -- large cockpit like an ensign and a real cabin. That particular one is quite the rescue story, too (http://www.flickr.com/photos/radicalcy/sets/72157602530126516/)! Too bad she's outside of the NorthEast, or I would go see her. I didn’t realize the Catalinas were available fixed-keel.

So, still no purchase. . . snow on the ground and seeking inspiration.

-Dr. C.

Morgan Paul · 09-02-2008, 14:08

Hurry up man, Summer is right around the corner

SkiprJohn · 09-02-2008, 14:37

Aloha Dr C,
Wouldn't it be fun to sail her up? Snow melting yet?
Yes, the Catalina 22 I had was fixed keel and a pretty good performer for her length. Also strong enough to do interisland here in Hawaii which the previous owners did.
JohnL