Bavaria vs Jeanneau vs Beneteau

[Cold_sailing]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Now the OP has said he'll have other family members staying with them, that changes things a bit. It's still better to start smaller though. I don't know about the Eastern Med, but in the US, some marinas don't even have slips for 50+ foot boats. The mast height is also a barrier to getting under standard 65' bridges on the ICW. Sailboats over 50' long typically have mast heights 70-80 feet, unless you get an older ketch or yawl.

we just had another recent thread about this.

Hi Rohan,

I got your point and read the post about the size of the boat.

I have chartered a Leopard 44 before, and I didn't feel intimidated by the size. As I mentioned above, I chartered a Beneteau 43 in Italy. It was my first time doing Med mooring, and I was capable of handling it with pretty much just my wife helping me once the crew had no idea what to do.

My concern about small boats (not that a 45 to 50-foot boat is small) is more about my sailing plan. We are looking to eventually sail to the Caribbean and do an ocean cross in a bigger boat, which usually is more comfortable and will sail fast.

We had the opportunity to check out a couple of 50-footers at Annapolis this year, and I would say that if we can't find a good 55 boat within my budget, I'll most probably start looking for a 50-foot boat.

[PHR]

Originally Posted by Rohan

If you are looking for quality, I would slightly lean toward Jeanneau, however all these boats are by respected mass production boat builders. Their quality is not the highest possible but they are all good.

However 54 - 55' is a lot of boat for a couple, especially if you don't have experience! You really don't need one that big. A larger boat is more difficult to handle and repair. Plust costs are all higher - not just the price of the boat, but repairs, haul-outs, marina fees, etc and sometimes taxes. If it's just the two of you with no children, no pets, I would go with 40 - 45' range. You two would even be fine in 36' range but for liveaboards the extra space would give you much needed storage.

I agree with this comment. I owned and lived aboard a Hunter 49 for five years and it had a lot of the requirements set out by the OP. It was large, and though I could handle it by myself, it was a lot of boat. I would go with the 40-45 ft range now as recommended in this post. All the bells & whistles cost money, and when they break, they cost even more. I do like the Jeanneau DS though, but again, size costs money. Good luck, a great adventure ahead for you and your mate.

[TheOffice]

I'd add a bow thruster (or budget for it) in the Med. If you are buying out of a charter fleet your upgrade costs may be significant.
Didn't see a watermaker on your list. A/C (at least 2), generator.
Many of the Benes have undersized furlers.
Then there are batteries and charging systems. Lithium? Solar?

[SaltyMetals]

Bow-thruster, Solar, Windgen, watermaker, washing machine and 2-3,000W inverter would tick most boxes. Li batteries probably add too many complications. Could probably all fit in a boat 45-50ft. The charter activity is not kind to boats so i would aim for a privately owned one.
The more modern Jeanneau ds models (2008 onwards look v nice from outside but are like a greenhouse inside due to those large forward facing windows. I dont think a genset is the answer since that just takes up more space and adds more problems so AC (more things to go wrong!) would be difficult. A partially see-through screen across those forward facing windows will work. You could add an older Halberg Rassy to your shopping list. Not really a charter boat so usually well kept and equipped.
Best of luck.
Andrew

[more]

Originally Posted by Cold_sailing

Hi, More.
As you are in Croatia, I'm pretty sure you have many opportunities to find the right boat that is not even listed.

Do you have any brokers to refer to?

normaly this hanse 50 ft not selling on yachtworld or with brooker.

for brooker try dont work with selymar, iam in Split located if you find something contact me i can go see boat. 20-30 km around split is ok. if i must travel more you pay fuel and lunch.
when i watching boat my primari is
boat not bi in fire,underwater,hard grounding,demasted,hard hit shore.

when you buy boat exept you must change
all hose,truhull,removing all flor,deep clean and repair everything what need..

boat usually have battery bank with autonomy 1 day max and **** truck agm battery. inverter 500w max,charger ussualy good 50-100a 12v system.
anchor undersize,chain also.

bavaria 55 is good boat,56 also good boat. but you must know this is hand made boat not production. and in this time boat be +- 400000€ - 20%

bavaria 55/56 only proble what i know is **** lewmar dual rudder yacht system. and autopilot location.
normaly some leek on deck always possible,but this is minnor.
also i this year by car be in greec ,never again i dont go to watch boat in greec,also be in Sicily,Roma and close genova. huge disappointment,but i before tell wife we dont go to see boat this is small holiday after greece. greec he send photo when hi buy this boat in factory,this time this is totaly different boat. demand live video

[more]

Originally Posted by TheOffice

I'd add a bow thruster (or budget for it) in the Med. If you are buying out of a charter fleet your upgrade costs may be significant.
Didn't see a watermaker on your list. A/C (at least 2), generator.
Many of the Benes have undersized furlers.
Then there are batteries and charging systems. Lithium? Solar?

i rare after 2000 year see charter monohull without bow thruster,watermaker in MED is wasting money nobody use except huge 100+ft mini cruiser. evry port,marina charge you water use not use. in Croatia island all town ,port you can buy only water for boat under 50 ft charge you from 3,2€ to 15€ depend.
i have watermaker but is in siting in garage. filter i sold before couple year.
boat 55-60 or flagship have generator and AC. other some boat have AC but with purpose without generator because owner want charter customer go in marina on shore plug

[Leighpilot]

Don’t be in a rush. Go charter these boats. You’re going to have the boat for ten years or more. A week on each would be a good use of your time . It’ll also give you a good idea of what to look for on each boat as you can ask the charterer what goes wrong on them

Twin rudders doesn’t give you redundancy. It gives you twice the chances of having steering problems. They’re interconnected. Failure in one could immobilise the other.

You don’t need three cabins. No one is going to come sailing with you. Nothing personal, they just don’t. Work,school, family commitments etc. They say they will, but they don’t.

Don’t fret the engine. The manufacturer will have installed a suitable motor.

Check the tax implications of a European purchase and importing it into the USA.

Unless you’re holding an EU passport you can’t cruise the Mediterranean for years. You’re limited to 90 days per 180. So your Mediterranean cruise will be 90 days in EU waters , then 90 days in Turkey ,Syria , Egypt , etc.

You don’t sound like you can afford these boats. You mention having a tight budget. Remember when you buy a boat , especially an ex charter boat , you’re probably going to spend another 25-30% just getting it sorted out. So if $300k is your budget , your top boat cost should be about $220. Big boats are hideously expensive to fix , insure , dock and maintain.

I just checked Yachtworld. You can get any number of 40-45 foot boats under three years old for just over $200k. That’s new enough to be unlikely to need refurbishment, more than big enough for you and will leave you with $100k to play with if needed and will cost less to dock, maintain and operate.

[Talbot]

If it has to be one of those 3 manufacturers, then pick Jeanneau.

Look at winch size, and manual/electric. Holding tanks? Fuel and water tank size.

Fridge/freezer - how big and are they keel cooled or air cooled.

With that size boat, replacing standing and running rigging is going to be really expensive.

Sails will also break most people's bank. If it has been chartered, the sails will likely be cheap material and baggy.

Check replacement costs for these and adjust any offer accordingly.

[X Fernandez]

Taking everyone else’s input into account, I would agree you can go smaller - with the right layout. A 48 footer with a great layout will make you happier than a 55 footer with a poor layout. Consider the Jeanneau 469. It’s the best layout I’ve seen for a liveaboard. Can sleep three couples, but when it’s just you and your spouse one of the aft berths makes for excellent storage.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2...y-469-8869892/

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by X Fernandez

A 48 footer with a great layout will make you happier than a 55 footer with a poor layout.

Yes, a small wallet with money in it makes you happier than an big wallet that is empty

Assuming sufficient level of quality etc., the thing is that a 55 footer with a great layout is a go anywhere, forever boat that provides a luxury and performance that beats any 48 footer.

I would choose a Sundeer 56 of course

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Cold_sailing

we are living in North America, but, most probably, we will buy the boat in the Med. I’ve been checking the YachtWorld, and most models/sizes of sailboats we are looking for are in Croatia/Greece.
We are looking to stay there (Med) for a couple of years while living aboard, and when the time is right, we will cross the Atlantic to the Caribbean.

Not something you asked about, but a big roadblock in your plan is the Schengen Area -- which is most of Europe/Med. I'm not real clear on the exceptions and work arounds, but from what I understand it is a huge barrier for foreigners wanting to spend money in Europe. The long and short is that within any 180 day window, you can personally spend no more than 90 days in the Schengen Area. This is a "personal" issue, not a "boat" issue. And it applies to ANY country in the area, not per country. In essence, it is almost impossible to take an extended (say, 4 month) vacation in Europe. With Britain leaving the EU, all the Brits with winter houses in Spain can't spend the winters in Spain. And you can't "reset" like you can with the boat, by leaving to Africa for a week -- it's a rolling 6 month window.



One huge exception is being a citizen. We may have an ace up our sleeve, but haven't seriously looked into it yet -- my wife's parents fled the Hungarian Revolution in 1956, and so (we think) she is eligible for a Hungarian passport (and by marriage, I am).


Another exception is being a student. Sign up for a 3 credit course in "Greek cooking," never show up for a class, but still be covered.


I really do NOT know what I'm talking about, because I haven't done it or even looked seriously into it. But I am 100% sure it is an issue you need to at least look at.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Talbot

Sails will also break most people's bank. If it has been chartered, the sails will likely be cheap material and baggy.

I put "replace sails" into the budget for nearly every boat we looked at. Most boats for sale need new sails, it's just a fact (and really, most boats on the water need new sails...LOL). We promptly replaced our jibs (we have a 150 and a 95) and now (6 years in) are starting to look at a new main.


We aren't high tech laminate sail kind of sailors, but we also aren't bargain basement cross cut dacron sailors either. For our 43' boat, our 2 jibs were $11K, and the quote for a new main is $8500. Consider double that as a reasonable discussion number for 55' boat (ie, about $40-$50K).


Seriously, count on them needing replacement.

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schengen stay 1-5 -50 year is not problem,
but need be clever.
for example croatia is easy gain
temporary stay or indefinitely – permanent stay visa

https://mup.gov.hr/aliens-281621/stay-and-work/281622

we have shortage of work force i think this year over 600000 .
but gain temporary visa or nomad visa in usa prepare document.
income source,FBI not criminal,birth certificate for all family, bank statement ecc.
if you have skill gain EU Blue Card
lot other way to gain temporary stay in EU

[more]

now size boat.
how long/wide boat this not meen biger have biger cabin

bavaria 40 from 2010 -2013 i think have biger cabin bed from bavaria 45/46 and 50 ft
but have 3 toilet less.

in hot climate size of bed is very important. what i messure widest bed have 4 cabin hanse 495/505/508 bat have 2 toilet less from jeannau 45/54

why i hate jeanneau, this boat is good for big asssholess 4 cabin 4 toilet. or 3 cabin 4 toilet

[more]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

I just checked Yachtworld. You can get any number of 40-45 foot boats under three years old for just over $200k. That’s new enough to be unlikely to need refurbishment, more than big enough for you and will leave you with $100k to play with if needed and will cost less to dock, maintain and operate.

pick one and show us