Advice for first sailboat

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by Soulseer

We did consider some of the Catalinas (as they are all over this area), but the brand doesn't inspire me to sail (most remind me of RVs on the inside - have the same basic problem with the Hunters we've looked at). Plus we've been on some smaller boats (33' and under) and neither I nor the wife like them much.

That's fair. Heavy boats like you are mentioning take a lot more air to get moving.....not an advantage on the CB...especially in the summer.

[TideTime]

Trust me Soulseer, contrary to your belief, you and your wife, at ages 51 and 46 respectively, are "spring chickens" when it comes to sailboat cruising. Rest assured, when and if you do get into cruising extensively, you will find many sailors considerably older than either of you. As for reliable cruising boats, providing you gain the experience to handle them, I agree with Cheechako that the Cape Dory 36 (around $50,000) would be an excellent boat; as would the Pacific Seacraft 37 (probably at least $80,000+), and the Island Packet 30 (also probably around $50,000 depending upon the model year). BEST WISHES and do not delay as the years do have a way of creeping up on us rather rapidly.

[barnakiel]

Aforementioned Moody about 50-70k depending on outfit and condition.


b.

[Doubleplay]

I agree with most of the advice given and I'll add my two cents. If you are not going to sail more than 1-2 days at a time in protected waters with your first boat, stay away from heavy displacement offshore boats. They'll quickly curb your enjoyment of sailing and won't teach you anything in light airs you'll encounter most of the time. Also with their hull and keel shape they''ll be a bitch to get into your crowded mooring. Get yourself a modern, light displacement sailor, spend couple years and then re asses. Also sailing as a crew offshore won't teach you much as it will be mostly boring watch keeping and occasional jibe or tack. If you want to learn the nuances of sailing find yourself a crew position on a inshore racing boat, you'll learn more in a day then a long blue water crossing. Good Luck.

[Jaqun]

If your looking for a school, The Maryland School of Sailing in Rock Hall is great!

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

I agree with most of the advice given and I'll add my two cents. If you are not going to sail more than 1-2 days at a time in protected waters with your first boat, stay away from heavy displacement offshore boats. They'll quickly curb your enjoyment of sailing and won't teach you anything in light airs you'll encounter most of the time. Also with their hull and keel shape they''ll be a bitch to get into your crowded mooring. Get yourself a modern, light displacement sailor, spend couple years and then re asses. Also sailing as a crew offshore won't teach you much as it will be mostly boring watch keeping and occasional jibe or tack. If you want to learn the nuances of sailing find yourself a crew position on a inshore racing boat, you'll learn more in a day then a long blue water crossing. Good Luck.

This is good advice. A heavy boat is not much fun in light air on the CB. Docking with a full keel, for a newbie, is not easy.

[rmhutch59]

Get the newest beneteau that you can afford, that will fit your needs. Older"bluewater" boats with lots of exterior teak require too much up keep that detracts from sailing time. The J-37 was also a good suggestion.

[Suijin]

I've been on my Valiant 40, full-time and single handing for almost 10 years. Get a Catalina 30, or a Benetau.

Most of the boats you listed are heavy, slow, hot, and inconvenient. Yes they will take an absolute beating and the build quality is way up there, but you don't need that. You need an affordable, manageable, comfortable, easy to maintain boat that you'll enjoy for a few years. If you never intend on going farther than Nova Scotia or the Caribbean, you don't need a battle axe, you need something you enjoy living on.

I can almost guarantee you that after living on any boat for a few years, you'll wish you'd bought a different one. What looks good on paper, or in sailboat reviews, ends up being entirely irrelevant against what you over time decide you need and want. How the boat is rigged, the layout of the interior, storage, tankage, electrical system, number of heads, headroom, seating, size and accessibility of bunks, ventilation...the list goes on and on. And you'll have no idea of any of that before you have time on the boat. Buying a blue water boat as your first boat is like buying an F-250 to lug bags of mulch from Home Depot for your 250 sq. foot flower bed.

A Catalina or Beneteau is perfect for the Chesapeake. I lived in Annapolis on my boat for a few years, and a big heavy deep draft offshore boat limits your sailing and gunk holing opportunities. They are also just less comfortable, for the most part.

Also, almost all of the boats you listed are starting to slide significantly in price since fewer people want them anymore. Ten years ago a decent Valiant 40 set you back about $100k. It's hard to find one over $65k now. Valiant 42s have plummeted in price from over $400k to under $200k. That trend is going to continue.

And plans change. Refits, kids' needs, the market, COVID, you name it.

Buy a less expensive more manageable boat now, learn from it, and buy the right boat for your needs when you reach a point where they are clear to you.

[yr2030]

My advice - take the sailing courses first - before you buy too big of a boat. Annapolis has the sail fest every year (don't know about 2020 yet). Anyway, with a "glut" of under 39s on the market today - I would pick the best of the bunch. Moody, Pac Seacraft, Morgan (pre-1985 models), Pearson, Ericson. Do more research, ask the owners their likes/dislikes.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Soulseer

Been lurking and reading through these forums for a few years now, but haven't really posted much. However, as my wife and I amble our way off to retirement, we've been seriously considering a plan to reduce our footprint in the world and sail away once retirement starts (and the kids are off on their own). Neither of us are spring chickens - 51 and 46 respectively and only have minor sailing experience currently. We both love the water and sailing in general and feel this will be a good fit for us once the kids have moved on and our careers are over.

We live in the Annapolis area in MD. I'll be retiring first, then the wife will follow about 2-5 years after.

So (as a background) here's the plan first, then questions ... and thanks for all those that stay with me till the end

We're saving up now for a starter/intermediate sailboat (budget is around $65k) - I say starter/intermediate sailboat because I'd rather buy just one sailboat that can survive the Chesapeake - but when the time comes, can take either myself or my wife offshore - in comfort and safety when we're experienced enough and want to take the leap for short trips. Over the same three years, we intend to take classes, charter, and generally prep to take ownership. We also hope to visit and see a number of sailboats to narrow down our choices.

With the boat in hand, we'll continue to sail and enjoy the the Chesapeake as much as possible and when I can, I intend to try and crew at least once a year to get more experience - especially offshore if possible. This should give us about 10-12 years of coastal, gunkholing experience (with a little offshore experience thrown in hopefully).

Eventually, the Admiral has said we'll downsize everything, sell the first boat, and grab a used catamaran (42-47') for the retirement part of the journey - with the hope of doing some Caribbean and European sailing at first and wherever the wind and our health will let us go afterward.

Sailboats need to call to us - we realize it's definitely an emotionally buy (and a money hole in the water - so we don't expect to make money on a sailboat purchase - )

As a matter of taste - I need to lean more into European boat design - like HR 352s or Malo 106s, as well as classic Robert Perry boats (wth a little less teak on top for either if possible). The wife tends to be a little more of a minimalist but isn't set on any particular design (she's more interested in heeling a little less).

So here's the question - knowing all this - what's a good starter/intermediate sailboat for us and our plans (Cruising couple with occassional guests)? We're looking for suggestions and thoughts.

(Again - I would prefer not to get two boats - a coastal cruiser, then a heavier, sea-kindly offshore capable boat if possible - got two kids to get through college and the sailing kiddie is modest).

Here's a list of some of the boats we're interested in (sadly most of which we're yet to see): Albin Nimbus 41, Baba 35, Cal 39, Corbin 39, Endeavour 37, Ericson 39(B), Fast Passage 39, HR 35, HR 352, Malo 106/116, Moody 376, Pacific Seacraft 34, Pacific Seacraft 37, Pearson 40, Perry 41, Peterson 44, Rival 41, Tartan 37, Tashiba 36, Tayana 37, Tanyana 42(CC), Wauquiez Hood 38, Valiant 39/40. We realize some of these will be on the edge of our budget, but don't mind fixing the boat up if needed.

Look forward to any questions or comments (respectful - please) made.

There is sailing and then there is boat ownership, perhaps two sides of the same coin but very different. If you have never owned a boat before there are significant expenses and time involved...I'm writing this from a boatyard right now. I know one author who sold his boat because he wanted to save his money for a bigger boat...perhaps you should start by seeing what it would cost you to keep one of the size you desire, but be honest with yourself, and see how that impacts your boat savings plan.

For sailing there are clubs, etc to get that experience you say you need.

I also am perplexed by the catamaran switch and suspect something other than sailing is involved. I would stick with one boat type.

If you two have not sailed offshore in a yacht I strongly suggest you folks somehow give it a try to see if the shoe fits before you get too far down a road that you find unsuitable. Someone I know very well was in LOVE with the thought of sailing but had little actual enjoyment in the sport.

For offshore cruising I generally approve of your list of possible boats. As you are buying used your selection will be from available boats, so a presorted list is warranted. Look them all up on sailboatdata.com and note their specifications and ratios for comparison...get to know what you are about to buy.

Good Luck,

MJH

[Soulseer]

Originally Posted by TideTime

Trust me Soulseer, contrary to your belief, you and your wife, at ages 51 and 46 respectively, are "spring chickens" when it comes to sailboat cruising. Rest assured, when and if you do get into cruising extensively, you will find many sailors considerably older than either of you. As for reliable cruising boats, providing you gain the experience to handle them, I agree with Cheechako that the Cape Dory 36 (around $50,000) would be an excellent boat; as would the Pacific Seacraft 37 (probably at least $80,000+), and the Island Packet 30 (also probably around $50,000 depending upon the model year). BEST WISHES and do not delay as the years do have a way of creeping up on us rather rapidly.

Appreciate the advice ... and will definitely consider those three!

[Soulseer]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

I agree with most of the advice given and I'll add my two cents. If you are not going to sail more than 1-2 days at a time in protected waters with your first boat, stay away from heavy displacement offshore boats. They'll quickly curb your enjoyment of sailing and won't teach you anything in light airs you'll encounter most of the time. Also with their hull and keel shape they''ll be a bitch to get into your crowded mooring. Get yourself a modern, light displacement sailor, spend couple years and then re asses. Also sailing as a crew offshore won't teach you much as it will be mostly boring watch keeping and occasional jibe or tack. If you want to learn the nuances of sailing find yourself a crew position on a inshore racing boat, you'll learn more in a day then a long blue water crossing. Good Luck.

I really don't know much about the local racing teams and have been a bit intimidated - unless it's more for fun than anything, still ... I will look into it.

[Soulseer]

Originally Posted by Jaqun

If your looking for a school, The Maryland School of Sailing in Rock Hall is great!

Jaqun - I have actually taken a course with them and did enjoy it. However, I was a bit dismayed when I saw some of their upper-level ASA courses required a certain BMI to attend. Sad to say I am a little BMI-challenged (moderately portly) and so is the wife and I felt a little insulted by the requirement. It was a bit of a turn-off on their programs.

[Soulseer]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I've been on my Valiant 40, full-time and single handing for almost 10 years. Get a Catalina 30, or a Benetau.

Most of the boats you listed are heavy, slow, hot, and inconvenient. Yes they will take an absolute beating and the build quality is way up there, but you don't need that. You need an affordable, manageable, comfortable, easy to maintain boat that you'll enjoy for a few years. If you never intend on going farther than Nova Scotia or the Caribbean, you don't need a battle axe, you need something you enjoy living on.

I can almost guarantee you that after living on any boat for a few years, you'll wish you'd bought a different one. What looks good on paper, or in sailboat reviews, ends up being entirely irrelevant against what you over time decide you need and want. How the boat is rigged, the layout of the interior, storage, tankage, electrical system, number of heads, headroom, seating, size and accessibility of bunks, ventilation...the list goes on and on. And you'll have no idea of any of that before you have time on the boat. Buying a blue water boat as your first boat is like buying an F-250 to lug bags of mulch from Home Depot for your 250 sq. foot flower bed.

A Catalina or Beneteau is perfect for the Chesapeake. I lived in Annapolis on my boat for a few years, and a big heavy deep draft offshore boat limits your sailing and gunk holing opportunities. They are also just less comfortable, for the most part.

Also, almost all of the boats you listed are starting to slide significantly in price since fewer people want them anymore. Ten years ago a decent Valiant 40 set you back about $100k. It's hard to find one over $65k now. Valiant 42s have plummeted in price from over $400k to under $200k. That trend is going to continue.

And plans change. Refits, kids' needs, the market, COVID, you name it.

Buy a less expensive more manageable boat now, learn from it, and buy the right boat for your needs when you reach a point where they are clear to you.

Plenty of food for thought - much appreciated. The Wife and I have considered Beneteaus and Jeaneaus (smaller ones) for the CB and probably will continue to do so as they are plentiful in the area and in our price range.

[Soulseer]

Originally Posted by yr2030

My advice - take the sailing courses first - before you buy too big of a boat. Annapolis has the sail fest every year (don't know about 2020 yet). Anyway, with a "glut" of under 39s on the market today - I would pick the best of the bunch. Moody, Pac Seacraft, Morgan (pre-1985 models), Pearson, Ericson. Do more research, ask the owners their likes/dislikes.

I am definitely hopign to ask more questions of owners and the forums as we narrow down things.