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Old 22-10-2020, 22:07   #1
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A bit more boat help please.

So here I'm still looking. Came across two boats that i would be looking at this weekend. One is a 1978 Ericson 34

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...217453552.html

The other boat is a 1978 yamaha 33

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/ws...214461403.html

Both boats are at the top of what I want to pay for a boat.
It seems the Yamaha was sold in 2018 with some electronics like chart plotter but now it has NO electronics what so ever.
SO does the Ericson it has only a radio.
Its as if both boats are bare bone
From what I read the Ericson is you love it or hate it. Most people prefer the 80's model as it had some improvements .
On the Yamaha there is not much info out there. But what I could find it seems everyone loves them.
I'm still looking for my first boat to learn to sail and maybe take a few trips up and down the coast for a few day or more.
What is everyone opinion on those boats and if the price seems fair.
From what I see, some boats take a long time to sell. When its time for me to sell I rather not get stuck with one no one wants.

Thank you
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Old 23-10-2020, 07:58   #2
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Geez - this IS a tough one, Fireant.

The Yamaha looks gorgeous - all the bells and whistles (I wish they would NOT include all those distorted pictures though!), a bit underpowered, perhaps, but at least it's a Yanmar. Then... the $15,000 pricetag. Hm. What's really going on here? Previous owner purchased 2 years ago. Is it something below the waterline (osmosis, keel failure, rudder failure)? Do the rig and all the sails need replacement? There's a little bit of a red flag, it seems to me. Proceed with caution. I can't speak to Yamaha as a brand, as I've never sailed them, so someone else can weigh in on that score, but otherwise, if she's actually in good condition, she would probably suit your needs quite well.

And then... the Ericson. Hrumph. Not enough pictures to really get a sense of her, but there's a lot of old wood she seems poorly laid out and in shabby condition.

I would say still go have a look at both boats in person and ask lots of questions. (You'll learn a lot regardless.) It's amazing what boat owners will volunteer if you just let them talk.

At some point while doing a walk-around inspection of the Yamaha, just casually ask, "you bought her a couple of years ago you say?...why are you selling her so soon?" And let them talk. You'll know from the tenor of their response if they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes or not.

The other question I've found to be a jewel is "What recent maintenance have you done?" This one once elicited - "a cutlass bearing replacement", which they showed me with pride. I said nothing, but began to search for the whys and wherefores. It became obvious it had been due to a hard grounding when I walked around and had a look at the distorted keel. Of course, I walked away from that particular boat. (It, too, was on the market for $10,000 - well under that boat's fair market value.)

Good luck!
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Old 23-10-2020, 09:38   #3
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Quote: "I'm still looking for my first boat to learn to sail and maybe take a few trips up and down the coast for a few day or more"

To add to the valuable comments made by LittleWing:

Both of these boats were designed by reputable designers to cater to a market (American/Californian predominantly) at a time when the essential difference in design criteria twixt boats designed to be racers and boats designed to be cruisers had become so thoroughly muddled that all that was lauded by the glossy mags (which, of course, is where most landsmen get their initial knowledge of boats) was boats that were neither fish nor foul.

The two boats you are looking at have accommodations that are essential identical and the bare minimum for any kind of cruising. They also, both of them, have basic design numbers that are appropriate for racing under the then existing rules: Sail Area/Displacement of about 18, Displacement/Waterline length of about 225. So there is really nothing to choose between them in that respect. Boats chosen by experienced cruising folk have - generally - lower SA/D and higher D/L numbers.

It comes down, therefore, to choosing the particular boat that has the fewest structural and mechanical deficiencies, i.e. that will be least costly to maintain. Anyone can find the bux to buy a boat. Far fewer can find the bux to KEEP a boat! Take some time to scull around on our forum for "Surveying 101" by our member "Boatpoker" Reading and understanding Boatpoker's "manual of surveying" will enable you to do your own surveys to the same standard that a lot of surveyors charge you big money for.

If these two particular boats were used for serious racing in their former lives, they will be fitted out with gear that makes them not the best kind of boat for a novice (which you say you are) to learn on. It can be done, but it is not IMO the best way, because handling them properly requires a fund of sailing knowledge that is best acquired on steadier, less "squirrelly" boats.

If you have no intentions (or indeed the budget) of racing for glory and tin pots, but your desire is to cruise, then IMO you should 1) learn what are the desiderata for GOOD cruising boats in terms of hull shape, rigging, arrangements and outfit. 2) accept the fundamental fact of life that such boats cost more to buy than what is contemplated here and, MORE PARTICULARLY, that the KEEPING of them is expensive. My piddling 30-footer, a pilot house cruiser specifically designed for the Salish Sea (Puget Sound north to Alaska) requires feeding to the tune of 15 grand a year, i.e. substantially the same amount of money as the acquisition costs of either of these two boats.

Best, therefore, if you wish to buy either of these two boats, to budget for a cash outlay of $30K for the first year of ownership, and for a cash outlay of $15K for every year thereafter for as long as you own the boat. You might consider, in consequence of this being money you will never see again, whether you would be better served by using the money for chartering from a reputable outfit for the rather small number of days in a year that you'll actually be using a boat.

All the best you you.

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Old 23-10-2020, 11:12   #4
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

I used to be neighbors with the Ericson , I recognize the boat because of the anchor mount . It was extended so the boat would be legal for a 35' slip in Alamitos Bay .
Where do you want to keep the boat ? Alamitos has no more 30' slips for rent and you don't want one anyway (they stuck them in a bad part of the marina).
One thing those boats don't have is a dodger , trust me you need one . They are very expensive to have one made new for a boat .
Both boats don't mention if the motor is fresh water cooled , if not I would not consider buying .
The only electronics I would really want included is a auto pilot , a new GPS is not that expensive .
You talk about selling , would you be looking for something a little bigger ?
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Old 23-10-2020, 12:17   #5
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

The idea behind buying the boat is to learn to sail. See if we like the sailing and travel by boat. If we do then in about 2-3 years we sell it all and buy a larger boat to sail on a romantic around the world trip . If we don't like the sailing and living on the boat then, we sell the boat in 2-3 years and go on a romantic travel by land around north America.

LittilWIng, I been out there looking and asking a lot of questions and learning a ton.
I mentioned it before people tend to think that the big 2ft long gouge on the side of the boat is nothing that wont puff out. Sometime you wonder if people are that blind, stupid or just lie to your face. I would rather walk away from the boat if something dont feel right. There is always another boat out there.

TrentePieds, What ever boat we get we don't look at it as the forever boat.
no intention of racing but its nice to not be the slug on the way out .
I got the survey 101 saved and read a few times just in case i forget anything.

Both boats do not have a dodger, I asked them specifically. I know that I do want the dodger.
I'm more biased toward the Yamaha as I found no bad reviews, everyone seems to like them.


Mark I would send you a PM if you don't mind about the Ericson

Thank you everyone for the help.
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Old 23-10-2020, 12:45   #6
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireant View Post
The idea behind buying the boat is to learn to sail. See if we like the sailing and travel by boat. If we do then in about 2-3 years we sell it all and buy a larger boat to sail on a romantic around the world trip . If we don't like the sailing and living on the boat then, we sell the boat in 2-3 years and go on a romantic travel by land around north America.
Given this, I would look hard at a partnership such as with this boat. $5k buy in, $175 fixed plus expenses.

You might want a boat all to yourself, but if you're just starting out, having partners willing to teach you is immensely beneficial to the learning curve, while, even if you're only allotted 1 week per month, you'll probably find yourself being invited to go out with another partner (depending on who the partners are, they might not have people ready/willing to go out, while extra hands often help).

Look at it this way: after 1 year ownership of your own boat, you'll have dumped a good % of $5k into your own boat...that you probably wont recover so much on resale. If you opt out of a $5k partnership after 6 months for $3k (sale of your share), then you're only out ~$3k or so for the experience gained...to me, overall a good bargain, just vet the partners interests/desires/personalities.
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Old 23-10-2020, 12:46   #7
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Hello, fireant,

Some folks with a Yamaha 33 were part of our group who crossed the pond in 1990. They maintained that boat very carefully. Trying to beat their way out of Stewart Island (the island south of New Zealand's South Island), into 45 knots with the hopes of getting around Puysegur Point, their ports began to leak, and they went back in. The boat had been sailed extensively, but not raced, iirc, in the SF Bay Area (25 kn. every afternoon in summertime). Eventually sold the boat in Australia, due to health issues.

Imho, if the boat itself doesn't have something major wrong with it (engine, sails, rigging, hard grounding), it should be a pleasure to sail around in Southern California's lighter airs, and would not be a bad starter boat. Although, I really think one's first boat should be about 26-27 ft., or an even smaller trailer sailer, because their rapidity of response in most situations teaches you more about the physics of sailing. But that's a whole other discussion.

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Old 23-10-2020, 13:55   #8
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Maybe a mute question now as the Yamaha craigslist listing is no longer there.
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Old 23-10-2020, 17:12   #9
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Boat still for sale he reposted the ad .
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Old 23-10-2020, 17:27   #10
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

singularity. This guy has a few boats he buys them cheap cleans them up and sells them as partnership. He makes 3-6 times the cost of the boat as profit.

I don't want to share a boat I want to go there when I want and do what I want. No fighting with any one else.
I'm very picky on how things are taken care of. If I see that someone don't take care as much as me it drives me nuts. I like to take care of things and enjoy it when I can take my time and do things right or even better.
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Old 23-10-2020, 17:28   #11
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

JPA thats what I hear about the Yamaha people seem to like the boat a lot.
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Old 23-10-2020, 17:37   #12
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

$15,000 asking price for a 40+ year old 33 footer lacking any electronics, etc. seems steep. But then again I don't have any experience with CA prices. Here in MA or NE in general one can find a fully loaded ready to sail 33-34 footer of that vintage for such an asking price, incl. dinghy and its motor.

I looked at mid 70s Ericson 32 once years ago. Was reasonably fast for its vintage but very squirely in its motion as the company had its roots in racing I guess and cruising comforts were a marketing team afterthought.
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Old 24-10-2020, 09:16   #13
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

I had an early Ericson and loved it. They made them stout and bulletproof back then!

I would prefer to pay less for a boat with no electronics so I have a budget to add the latest stuff. Most of the time the electronics that come with an older boat are also older and ready to replace anyway.
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Old 24-10-2020, 09:57   #14
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

It depends on your past sailing experience. Either boats would be great for California coastal cruising. but if you are a beginning sailer with little experience I recommend a smaller starter boat at around 25'or even smaller to learn in. Easier to single hand and easier to sell when you are ready to go larger. The smaller the boat the easier to trade up.
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Old 24-10-2020, 10:10   #15
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Re: A bit more boat help please.

Well I learned something new today- Yamaha made sailboats! Were they built in Japan?
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