1960s Spencer 35 MK1. Too Old? Worth it? Anyone one have info on them?

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You would think the cockpit is to big until you see how fast the twin 2 inch drains empty it.
I would rather the Spencer than an islander but not by much .

I have four two inch drains in the cockpit of the rose. It still fills when she gets pooped. Mind.. it does drain fairly fast. The length does make it nice to lay down on

[Mafiakitty]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

A great deal of how I would proceed would depend on how I was going to use it.

Primarily liveaboard, and coastal cruising, with very infrequent offshore in a couple years maybe.

Originally Posted by gjordan

...but I agree that you can probably find a better deal than that boat, but boats from that era are often built very strongly, and IF WELL MAINTAINED are good low cost cruisers

We’ve been searching for a full-keeled offshore boat for 2 years now. Slim pickings where we are. We’ve been looking at Rawsons (too heavy), Albin Vegas (not enough head room), Albergs (either way out of our budget or needed way too much work, or sell before we can view it!), etc.

Originally Posted by newhaul

Is this a spencer built in canada? SPENCER 35 MK I sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com Or is it one.of those scarry ones which were built in Australia

This one was built in Canada, he has some original documentation, line drawings, etc. I found more info on the exact same boat online, registration info, previous owners, etc. 100% sure it's a real one.

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Read Marine Survey 101 and then go have another look before you hire a surveyor.

Yeah, I’ve seen that before. That’s what I was thinking, viewing it again and going through it with a more fine-toothed comb. And walk away if anything major jumps out at me.

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

Review the Oct, 2016 survey closely. What was the advice regarding marginal items? Typically doesn't include engine or rigging survey. Would agree if standing rigging is 15yrs old it may need replacing and definitely would pull the chain plates to inspect. Is that rust on he valve cover? why? where else? Does current owner have any maintenance receipts?

The survey is actually dated October, 2015, but there are a few minor mistakes in the survey, which the owner says the date being wrong is one of them, so it’s possible the owner’s lying and the survey is two years old. I suppose one year probably doesn’t make much of a difference with a 55 year-old boat.

The in-the-water survey didn’t mention anything. Just from what could be seen, appeared good, with just minor wear and tear from it’s age. Didn’t find any delamination anywhere, stringers and such that could be seen, appeared good. The engine bed was sounded, found no softness or delamination. “The engine was seen with good external hoses and appeared in well kept condition.” Not sure if there was rust on the valve cover, but the heat exchanger(?) definitely did, and the three pulleys. Didn’t even mention any recommendations for the owner to do, except to get safety equipment. We totally forgot to ask for any maintenance receipts. It was pouring out, freezing, but we managed to view it for an hour. We’re definitely going to view it again.

Originally Posted by ctl411

Also might help to clarify your $20000. If this is all or after buying. If you pay $15000 your $5000 will not go far.
Forgot the most important, if you are not handy or the boat is located where you can't work on it don't buy it. Be honest with yourself about this.

We have $20K cash and $10K personal line-of-credit for repairs, in addition to the purchase price. I’m fairly handy, I’ve worked in the trades, and there are tutorials online for everything I have many books of Don Casey, Nigel Calder, etc.

We can’t really work on it where it is right now, and to relocate it you’d have to sail across a good size of open water about 50km, which we’ve never done. We were thinking we could keep it where it is till better weather, then sail it across, and/or hire someone (or get a more experienced friend) to help us sail it across. Pain in the butt, but manageable I think.

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Plus: That looks like a yanmar diesel (?)
-Sail condition is a huge thing. Sails are very expensive now. If the sail are very good that's a plus. If not, It may be $15000.
-It looks like the mast needs to come off and be stripped and repainted, probably rewired and as you said new rigging. If you do it all yourself it's still gonna be a few thousand anyway.
-A boat that age can have bad fuel and water tanks, bad rudder/shaft etc. This can be pretty big deal involving getting the tanks out and dry dock expenses for the rudder etc.
-Watch for bottom blisters, if it has a bad case on a boat that old I would run away.
All in all it could be a good boat eventually, but don't underestimate the work. You could easily spend 2-3 years rebuilding her along the way.
The devil is in the details. Where are you?
If the sails and engine are good I might start off offering maybe $6k for the boat with a list of things needing done. Justify your offer.

It’s a Yanmar 3GMF 20HP. We’ve gotten quotes back from local sailmakers for a new cruising mainsail for about $2500, but the sails appear fine. Tanks are in the bilge, they seemed fine I guess. He did have it hauled out a few months ago, a plastic bag got sucked into a seacock I think, and he had the bottom painted and rezinced. He said just a few small blisters, and a couple years ago had a couple big ones, but payed to have them repaired. As long as the boat is sound, and nothing major, I think we’re okay with fixing it up over the next couple years, especially since we eventually plan to live full-time on it.

Originally Posted by FutureStories

Offer 5, rip it apart (kindly) "I really love this boat but it's going to take me $30,000 to make it worth $15,000." Also go look at more boats! Let the seller know you're looking at more boats! "I really like this one, but that Catalina sure had a lot of room, it's newer and it's only $12,500 and they said they're negotiable"

If they scoff. Wait a little while. And come back and offer 6,500 in a week. Don't do so immediately so they think they've lost you. Pay for a survey once you finally get them to settle on a low price. And then use the new findings in the survey to justify a lower price again.

That’s good; after we view it again, and if we decide to go after it, we’ll do something like this.

Originally Posted by mitiempo

I have not ever heard of problems with Spencer chainplates which is a good thing as they are very hard to get at. There is one continuous chainplate beneath the three deck tangs that is glassed to the inside of the hull.

One long continuous horizon chainplate? Never seen something like that before. There exist a photo anywhere? Does sound like it would be difficult to get at.

Originally Posted by mitiempo

I see it still has the wire halyards and the bronze captive halyard winch. I'd eliminate that first chance as they can be dangerous especially after 50 years.

How do they become dangerous?

Originally Posted by zeehag

in facebook a friend is refitting completely a spenscer 42. i have a friend also, who is cruising mexico in his much loved spencer 42. as these were buil tbefore 1973, there willbe no blistering. that phenomenon began in mid 1970s due to epa requirements slapped on manufacture of fg boats in usa. is why so many manufacturere went out of business at that time.

Woah, I didn't know that. Is there an article or more info on this online somewhere?

Originally Posted by zeehag

if you wish to speak with the friend in cali restoring his spencer, please let me know. he is more than willing to give information.

How similar are the 35 and 42? They look pretty similar. Sure, I've love to speak with your friend - more info the better. Especially the chainplates.

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I'm with Zee, Offer $10k or maybe $8k. If it was a gas engine I'd say $5k. But the yanmar diesel is worth more even if the outsides are a tad rusty If you do the work yourself, electrical and plumbing is not too spendy.

Yeah, I though starting at 8K sounded like a good idea.

We're on a very frugal budget and we will try to do everything ourselves (after much research first of course). Don Casey and Nigel Calder books have been immensely helpful!

[mitiempo]

Mafiakitty

Where are you and where is the boat?

Captive wire halyard winches like the one on the Spencer have issues with the brake slipping. They have broken both arms and heads over the years when they slip, especially when they are old.

I would check the sheaves at the masthead and replace the halyards with rope, something like Samson XLS. A halyard winch can be bought used for not much.

The chainplates are buried - glassed into the hull. I have not heard of any issues with them but they are hard to inspect. You would have to remove part of the interior to get close to them. I know personally of 4 Spencers that have sailed extensively offshore - plus of course the late Hal Roth's Whisper without any major structural issues.

If you can find it is a used book store get Hal Roth's book "After 50,000 Miles". Tells you everything you would want to know about Spencers.

[Mafiakitty]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Mafiakitty

Where are you and where is the boat?

Captive wire halyard winches like the one on the Spencer have issues with the brake slipping. They have broken both arms and heads over the years when they slip, especially when they are old.

I would check the sheaves at the masthead and replace the halyards with rope, something like Samson XLS. A halyard winch can be bought used for not much.

The chainplates are buried - glassed into the hull. I have not heard of any issues with them but they are hard to inspect. You would have to remove part of the interior to get close to them. I know personally of 4 Spencers that have sailed extensively offshore - plus of course the late Hal Roth's Whisper without any major structural issues.

If you can find it is a used book store get Hal Roth's book "After 50,000 Miles". Tells you everything you would want to know about Spencers.

Thanks for the reply mitiempo. I'm located in Surrey. The boat is located in Nanaimo, the ad listing is here (webpage archived here).

He originally had $16K on it, we offered 10K, he countered with $12. After the survey, we'll probably offer $10K or less.

I think he's always had the jib up, and has never used the halyard, but we'd replace it.

We've accumulated a list of all the work it needs just from our observation:

1. Mast base corrosion, so maybe a new mast?
2. Engine crankshaft/alternator/pump pulleys are corroded.
3. Probably new rigging.
4. 2 hull-to-deck joint bolts are leaking (probably just need to be tightened or resealed).
5. All new safety equipment.
6. Dodger, 2 windows are yellow and hazed.
7. Sails cleaned/repaired.
8. Decks and toe rail need new paint.
9. Head needs repair kit, water doesn't enter the bowl.
10. Leak down inside of mast and into the the head.
11. Compression post should be inspected.
12. Crack in toe rail near bow, port side.
13. Replace old wire halyard.
14. No boom vang
15. Needs mast nav light.
16. A little interior rot/cracked.
17. Marine/tinned wire not used in boat.
18. Winches need serviced.
19. Cockpit lockers leak
20. Knotmeter
21. Companionway hatch needs sanding, catches.
22. Water under and around fuel tank
23. Dickinson heater leaks/cracked around thru-deck fitting.
24. Dickinson heater fuel-pump needs frequent replacing, something's going on somewhere...
25. The surveyor will probably find lots more wrong with it.
    

One spar manufacturer quoted me around $7500 and the the other $20K for a new mast and said for a boat like this would need new rigging and sails.

The only one I'm concerned about is the mast, all the others can be fixed later over time, but we probably can't afford a new mast.

The base of the mast has what appears to be aluminum flaking off.

Having to maybe walk away from yet another boat sucks

[mitiempo]

Really can't tell the condition of the mast from the pic but it doesn't look good.

All you need is an extrusion the right size with a welded masthead. Installing tangs and other hardware is not hard to do.

Or look for a used mast the same height from a boat that was damaged or is being sold for parts.

[FutureStories]

I'd walk away. Based on your evaluation.

How much spare time do you have set aside to fix all this?

Are you going to do all the work? Pay some do some?

I've seen "free" boats in better condition. I'm laughingly considering taking on one of my friends "free" boats for fun and a laugh. But we're more likely to rig a winch system and hoist it into a tree to make a tree house and bar.

[gjordan]

It has been said several times already, but buy and read AFTER 50 THOUSAND MILES. If I remember correctly they removed the toe rail and glassed over the whole hull to deck joint because of leaks. They then put special stanchion bases on that you bolted 1 by 4 teak pieces in place of a potentially leaky toe rail. I think that was a great idea, but a lot of work. There is a lot of good advice in that book. Just another 2 cents worth.

[Cheechako]

Mast corrosion on the lower 8 feet or so is not unusual. Hard to tell if that one has deep corrosion or not. Remove it, strip it entirely, determine what the offending metals are... (bronze winches on the mast?) remove all the trash and rebuild using good fasteners and barrier material to avoid interaction between fasteners and the mast.

[zeehag]

see if you can snag it for 12.500.
is a good boat. rigging has 20 yr life expectancy unless abused, the mast looks to require routine maintenance., you stated no bulkhead damage from internal leakage, hull to deck connection good.
you want it, offer 10000 and then go to 12,500usd if he scoffs at your ridiculous yet appropriate offer.
i have seen a few of these boats out here cruising.. they hold beauty and function looong time.
the list of to be fixes are not serious issues. you will want to step the mast and repair mast step and base of mast and check internal wiring.
engines can be rebuilt for not a lot of money if you have a good knowledgeable mechanic or diy. \
btw--many cruising boats have no boom vang. vang is not a mandatory you will die issue. neither is toe rail crack.
\your list was mainly appearance group. some function -- but the function issues are due for repair anyway. changing halyards is on the new owner.
upgrades are on new owner.
the boat floats. that, in itself, speaks volumes.
ps..... you do not need a new mast. aluminum corrodes. that is visually ugly but not gonna make a difference.
and what cheechako said.

[Mafiakitty]

Update! We bought the boat in May!

He had $16K on it and we got him down to $11500. So, not too bad. We’re very happy with the decision.

Most of the things seem to be cosmetic and normal wear and tear and we look forward to fixing it up over the years to come.

The surveyor said the mast shouldn’t be a problem, should be able to get it sleeved or welded if needed. We’re going to have a rigging inspect it soon.

Thanks to everyone for your opinions.

[Hoodsail]

Mafiakitty, congratulations on your "new" boat. Many of the items on your list can be handled by you as has been mentioned earlier. Scour books, this forum, utube videos, and if still uncertain, buy an hour or two of time from local marine mechanic or yard staff with experience in diesels, fiberglassing, etc. I put a list of questions together about my diesel and sat with mechanic in front of my engine as he explained what is that? how to do that? etc. I've sewed a new dodger, its okay, not great. Built stainless steel frame for new bimini and just finished sunbrella cover. Replaced water pump, alternator, filters-fuel/oil, with many projects still on the list for this yr and next. Enjoy her...
dave

[newhaul]

Welcome to the Spencer family. Where is the refit thread and include pictures. (you stole that boat. ).
I'm sure you will enjoy many years of happy sailing on her.

[Don C L]

OK, now you are honorary members of the "Plastic Classics" social group! Get over there and start posting the "before" photos! You too Hoodsail! Your complimentary winch cover beer holders and matching lobster bibs are on their way!

[Renegde_Sailor]

I am a little late to the party on this one, I own S42#7

Fantastic boats!

I see you bought her, if you have not yet check out the Spencer Yachts Owner Group on Facebook. Good group of people there who know a ton about these boats!

[roverhi]

If the corrosion on the base of the mast only extends up a few inches repair is easy. Cut off the corroded part and make a spacer out of some non compressible material, I used a 2" thick plastic block, to regain the amount you cut off. Can't remember what I paid for the plastic block but that was the most expensive part of the repair not counting hauling the stick. If you are going to repaint the mast, can wait till you get the energy to do that.

Watched two guys next to me prep their mast for repainting. Took them three long days sanding and fairing the paint, mostly by hand to get into all the nooks and crannies. Hired a professional to actually spray it. Mast still looks good after 8 years and a circumnavigation.

If you didn't read Hal Roth's book, he liked the sailing characteristics of the boat so much that he made a major change to the deck to cure the two large cockpit. Hal was into high latitude sailing and wanted the boat to survive what those nasty areas will throw at you.