Crew Available: Crew Contributions aka $$$

[Dave_S]

I've never understood getting upset because someone asks you to pay or the other expects to be paid etc.. because if someone makes an offer you can accept or eject or negotiate. No harm done regadless. It was an offer, it was what they considered to be the arrangement they want. If it doesn't match yours, Oh, well move on. It was an offer you didn't have yesterday. If it was crazy, then you dodged a bullet, lucky you.

However...

Not disclosing the arrangement before hand is dodgy.

[Lost Horizons]

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...tle-seeks-crew

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...tle-seeks-crew

Lost Horizons, This is a forum. It is for comments and discussion. If you have something to say, say it.

Others may appreciate your helpful links, I don't.

[Lost Horizons]

I think it was quite self explanatory. An example of a crewing experience where one is expected to pay $15k for a privilege to wash dishes on a boat.

[goboatingnow]

I find it bizarre people would expect people to “ pay “ to crew. I have two types of occasional crew , ones I cover their expenses on a delivery or “ guests “ , like most good guests I expect them to buy rounds of drink or contribute to the food shopping ( ie go and shop ) , the ones that don’t , arnt invited back

If I can’t finance my lifestyle I wouldn’t be leaching of the backs of others

Taking money from crew opens a world of legal issues , insurance , certification , boat coding etc.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

I think it was quite self explanatory. An example of a crewing experience where one is expected to pay $15k for a privilege to wash dishes on a boat.

There you go! A reasonable comment that tells us what you are thinking. That's much better than just posting a link we're supposed to follow. I'm not much of a follower.

Lost Horizons, I'm not trying to pick on you. My suggestion is directed to all CF posters who prefer to post links rather than give an opinion or summarize them. It's a pet peeve of mine.

If you say, "This is what I think", I'll read it and consider it. If you say, "Go read this..." I'm going to say sorry old chap, I've got better thangs to do than jump when you say jump.

[Manateeman]

“Anything of value” means exactly that if you are a US vessel. The USCG is very clear unlicensed passenger vessels will be stopped, passengers removed, and the vessel towed. An Attorney certified in maritime and admiralty will cost you in the thousands.
Professional aircraft pilots, long haul truckers, railroad engineers and mariners, have taken the time and money to conform to the law. Random drug and alcohol testing, and equipment safety inspections are part of a system to prevent injury to innocent passengers and the general public.
The DOT and the USCG open for public comment, almost every rule before it becomes law. If you don’t like the rules, go play in another sandbox.
Bon voyage to Ken, Barbie and the cat as they blog out over the ocean with wine glasses in hand. If you don’t like rules, join them. Just be prepared to face the consequences and please stop complaining...it’s boring.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his manatee friends who appreciate Federal Enforcement Protection.

[Dsanduril]

I hesitated to post here, but hopefully some potential crew will find this anecdote useful. We met a cruising boat at St. Helena, which is pretty far from anywhere. Aboard were the owning couple and two “contributing crew”. Having made it to the middle of nowhere in the Atlantic the boat was basically unseaworthy. The breakdowns were so severe that the boat had to be hauled by the cargo crane on the wharf. In the end they spent five weeks at what was supposed to be a one week stop. The owners expected and insisted that the crew continue to pay their contribution throughout the delay. In the end, one of the two paying crew ran out of money and had to catch the once a week flight back to South Africa.

The moral of this story, for potential crew, is get it in writing and have both parties give some consideration to delays, especially those over which the crew has no control.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by wingssail

There you go! A reasonable comment that tells us what you are thinking. That's much better than just posting a link we're supposed to follow. I'm not much of a follower.

Lost Horizons, I'm not trying to pick on you. My suggestion is directed to all CF posters who prefer to post links rather than give an opinion or summarize them. It's a pet peeve of mine.

If you say, "This is what I think", I'll read it and consider it. If you say, "Go read this..." I'm going to say sorry old chap, I've got better thangs to do than jump when you say jump.

I understand and agree with this position.

[Montanan]

FYI:

USCG regulations.

If passengers are allowed onboard for any monetary
contribution, economic benefit or a donation as a
condition of carriage to any person having an
interest in the vessel is considered a commercial
operation (passenger for hire).

A recreational vessel is manufactured and
operated for pleasure with no one onboard
who provided money or any type of
economic benefit (this is NOT a passenger
for hire operation).

A few examples of a passenger for
hire vessel [a commercial chartered vessel]:

1.Passengers buy tickets to ride aboard.

2.You rent your moored vessel as a bed & breakfast or an Airbnb lodging.

3. You rent your entire vessel for a party while the
vessel is underway.

4. Requiring fuel, food and/or beverage as a
mandatory contribution in lieu of cash for a fishing trip or a cruise.

5. Requiring cash contribution for anything in exchange for the privilege to be aboard.

DEFINITIONS
46 US Code (USC) 2101, 46 Code of Federal
Regulations (CFR) 175.400,

Passenger: means an individual carried on a vessel,
except: (1) The owner or an individual representative
of the owner, or in the case of a vessel under charter,
an individual charterer or individual representative
of the charterer. (2) The Master; or (3) A member of
the crew engaged in the business of the vessel who
has not contributed consideration for carriage and
who is paid for on board services.

Passenger for Hire: means a passenger for whom
consideration is contributed as a condition of
carriage on the vessel, whether directly or
indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer,
operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.

Consideration: means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit, including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage by monetary contribution or donation of food, fuel, beverage, or other supplies. Key word is Voluntary, meaning not asked for, nor required or expected, i.e., just gifted.
Voluntary: acting or done of one's own free will without valuable consideration or legal obligation.

Recreational Vessel: means a vessel - (A) being
manufactured or operated primarily for pleasure; or
(B) leased, rented, or chartered to another for the
latter’s pleasure.

REQUIRED DOCUMENTS FOR LEGAL OPERATIONS: Reference attached image below.
-Recreational Vessel: Certificate of Documentation or
State Registration.
-Small Passenger Vessel: USCG Licensed Master,
Certificate of Documentation or State Registration,
Certificate of Inspection.
-Uninspected Passenger Vessel: Certificate of
Documentation or State Registration, USCG Licensed
Master/Mate, or Uninspected Passenger Operator
Credential.
- Bareboat Charter Vessel: Certificate of Documentation
or State Registration, Bareboat Agreement, USCG
Licensed Master Mate or Uninspected Passenger
Operator Credential (if required).

In addition most if not all States and countries will require that a commercial passenger carrying boat will need a business license and likely charter boat insurance.

[AKA-None]

A few years back we found a boat for hire with its commercial captain and joined a race. But it was a boat for hire not a random boat owner

[Fore and Aft]

I don’t think there is any right or wrong answer here. I have seen all sorts of crewing situations. I personally don’t understand paying to hang out with strangers in a confined space.
Dsanduril is right about getting it in writing, I have seen the same situation where the crew is getting screwed while tied to the dock. In that situation the boat had been provisioned for a month and then developed engine issues. So they were eating the supplies while stuck in one place. It was not the adventure the crew signed up for.
Cheers

[sailorboy1]

I have only had crew once and i paid for everything other than their travel to/from the boat and I provided good meals on/off the boat. But really now, if you don't like the arrangement don't go. Why would you do anything else?

[Bycrick]

Be careful about someone being "crew" vs "passenger." According to a legal article I read years ago, as a "passenger" they’re responsible for their own health care, immigration bonds, repatriation to their home country, etc.

If they’re "crew," then you’re responsible.

[Montanan]

Federal law (Title 46 U.S. Code, sec. 2101) defines a passenger for hire as “a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.” A “passenger” is basically anyone aboard who does not have any crew responsibilities or any responsibilities relating to the operation of the boat.

The statute further defines “consideration” as “an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.”

The definition is fairly straightforward, until we get to the last half-sentence. The sharing of the boat’s operating expenses. I have discussed this issue with many nonprofit organizations over the past few years, and the problem centers on the word “voluntary.” A “voluntary” sharing of expenses would be something along the lines of a passenger telling the owner “here – let me help,” and handing him or her twenty dollars. The payment is not a condition for allowing him or her aboard for the voyage.

A passenger for hire is therefore someone who cannot participate in the voyage without paying or contributing something. This includes the sharing of expenses. If a passenger is required to share expenses, it is not “voluntary,” and that person becomes a passenger for hire.

The stakes in this discussion can be high. An excursion that does not carry any passengers for hire is simply a recreational boat out for a day-sail. It is not subject to the operator licensing requirements, construction guidelines, passenger limits or equipment requirements that regulate the charter industry.

Most vessels that carry passengers for hire in the U.S. must comply with a strict set of Coast Guard regulations, they must pass a rigorous Coast Guard inspection (this is not the courtesy inspection conducted by the Coast Guard Auxiliary), and the boat must be issued a Certificate of Inspection from the Coast Guard. If it is not issued a Certificate of Inspection, it will be limited to six or fewer passengers for hire (often referred to as a “six-pack” charter). But even a six-pack charter must be operated by a licensed captain, and the boat must be built in the United States.

A foreign built vessel may not legally carry passengers for hire in this country unless the owner obtains a waiver of the restriction through to the Small Vessel Waiver Program administered by the United States Maritime Administration (“MARAD”).