Crew Available: Crew Contributions aka $$$

[fxykty]

So somebody like these guys with two Swan yachts https://www.59-north.com/ must have waiver of restriction for each boat, as it seems they are based out of the US? BTW, this is an example of a professional business built from the ground up as a business.

This next one looks like they’re cashing in on YouTube fame and creating a business. https://sailingbritican.com/ Seems like they’re asking quite a bit of money for just going for a sail on a cruising boat.

[Compass790]

Yes they should be upfront,
I started out paying, then just crewing with everything supplied on different vessels & ended up being paid & have had various experiences.
My advice is don't settle for anyone who makes you pay unless you are in a hurry to get somewhere. The reason for this is it seems to be quite a bit harder on crew if the owners are financially strapped. There tend to be lots more delays with breakages or mechanical & system difficulties with those types.
I can understand them wanting you to pay but it's your choice.

[Barra]

^^^

sailing britican - " been providing sailing lifestyle support to people like you since 2014. "

Thanks made me laugh out load that link

Good on them for their ingenuity though I suppose.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by fxykty

So somebody like these guys with two Swan yachts https://www.59-north.com/ must have waiver of restriction for each boat, as it seems they are based out of the US? BTW, this is an example of a professional business built from the ground up as a business.

This next one looks like they’re cashing in on YouTube fame and creating a business. https://sailingbritican.com/ Seems like they’re asking quite a bit of money for just going for a sail on a cruising boat.

Looking at their sites, it doesn't look like any of their passages are in the US, so US law wouldn't apply.

Also, while the above examples are openly operating as businesses, most of what is being discussed here is on a smaller and less apparent scale. The type of contributing passenger that is mostly discusses on these forums seems more like an issue that is only a problem if somebody reports it, eg. there's an accident that is investigated, there is a dispute where a complaint is made to an authority. And therefore, probably flies under the wire for the most part.

[B_Hunter45]

I had several "crew" on my boat, they were like sailing partners, they participated in the planning and we decided together. The only privilege I had as the captain was that my risk assessment prevailed, after all I am responsible for their safety. I remember the wife of a crew member calling my wife to make sure she will have her guy back in one piece. The only thing I expect partners to pay is their food. We share the work.

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by fxykty

So somebody like these guys with two Swan yachts https://www.59-north.com/ must have waiver of restriction for each boat, as it seems they are based out of the US? BTW, this is an example of a professional business built from the ground up as a business.

This next one looks like they’re cashing in on YouTube fame and creating a business. https://sailingbritican.com/ Seems like they’re asking quite a bit of money for just going for a sail on a cruising boat.

The Sailingbritican couple Simon and Kim work very hard at providing a much needed, legitimate and properly licensed service to potential cruisers. Their fee is a bargain.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo

The Sailingbritican couple Simon and Kim work very hard at providing a much needed, legitimate and properly licensed service to potential cruisers. Their fee is a bargain.

USD6,000 per week is a bargain?!?

And they do not provide any certification and are not instructors - after a week with them you come out with the experience but nothing else. They are regular (albeit outgoing and engaging) cruising folks who have decided to finance their lifestyle through offering an immersive bed and breakfast on a cruising boat to people.

They are properly registered and insured, so that’s great and puts them well ahead of all the shadow operators who offer cash for sailing.

[muttnik]

In order for a uk-flagged vessel to be a "pleasure vessel" under the merchant shipping act and therefore exempt from codes of practice (ie confirming to all relevant commercial standards and being certified as such which is a significant expense) an owner can only receive a contribution to the direct expenses incurred on a voyage.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...ulation/2/made
This is commonly taken to mean food and drink, fuel and berthing fees but not a contribution to the capital cost of the boat. Looking at the section on contributions on crewseekers.net (which seems to enforce to a certain extent the transparency the OP suggested) they add in the example of a share of a cruising licence for the galapagos.

IMHO there are legal requirements, there is a moral requirement for transparency and everything else is for people to decide between themselves. Legal requirements will vary between states. The OP's objection seemed to be about transparency and perhaps some owners aren't transparent because they're not being legal with regards to being "non-commercial".

As long as transparency is maintained and it's legal I don't see an issue with mutually agreed shared costs. An owner couple might normally want to keep costs down by anchoring but with 2 agreeable crew to share costs it might become economic to spend a few nights in a fancy marina or do stuff they or the crew couldn't normally afford on their own.

Remember crewing isn't always about crew doing the skipper a favour. If there were some legal prohibition on expenses contributions a skipper who doesn't *need* crew can't do someone (who potentially isn't qualified to stand a watch) a favour by giving them a ride without paying for their food too.

For the record, I only have friends crewing on my boat so don't ask for contributions.

[Benz]

When I was hitching rides on sailboats--working my passage--it was usually because I needed to get somewhere, and I was happy to work the boat, and clean, and wax, and stand watches, and whatever. I was careful to get off the boat as quickly as possible at our destination so as not to burden the host. I never asked for money, and was only asked to share food costs once. I paid them $60 for two weeks of food and considered it a bargain. In looking for those rides, I ran across boats that wanted me to "share costs" or to pay $300/week up front--but they needed the extra hand! Needless to say I walked away. It astonished me the first time I discovered backpackers paying $20/day to be deckhands and galley slaves, and thinking nothing of it.
Having now my own boat, I've always paid all crew expenses short of shore-side revels (though I do take them out to eat at our destination), even to the buying of taxi fares and bus tickets to a reasonable destination. I'm paying back, with interest I hope, the kindness of the first half-dozen boats that took me on with no thought of money.
I have no personal problem with the black market of fly-by-night backpacker transports that flourish in places like the Darien peninsula. The backpackers know they're paying out the nose; small, illegal businesses flourish, corrupt officials take bribes, and an economy is maintained. I refused to participate even when offered $300 a head to take backpackers overnight to Cartagena from Zapzurro, but I don't knock those who do. My only regret is that they're flooding the San Blas archipelago with drunken backpackers, making it rather less than an ideal far-flung getaway. Sigh.

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by fxykty

USD6,000 per week is a bargain?!?

And they do not provide any certification and are not instructors - after a week with them you come out with the experience but nothing else. They are regular (albeit outgoing and engaging) cruising folks who have decided to finance their lifestyle through offering an immersive bed and breakfast on a cruising boat to people.

They are properly registered and insured, so that’s great and puts them well ahead of all the shadow operators who offer cash for sailing.

I have known Kim and Simon for over eight years, they are a talented and honorable couple sharing their cruising lifestyle. For a fee others can join them on their Oyster yacht, but obviously many cannot afford to do so.

[Montanan]

Carrying Passengers on Your Boat…Legally?

Have you taken passengers for rides on your boat and charged a fee or are you thinking about it? Are you considering renting out your boat to make money? Federal law requires passenger for hire service operating on U.S. navigable waters to comply with minimum federal safety and personnel licensing laws and regulations. A violation of these laws can result in fines of up to US$42,750 or more per day. Repeated violations or an accident leading to injury or death on non compliant vessels can lead to felony criminal charges.

The term “charter” or charter boat is often misused. A charter in the maritime realm is a legal term going back to the days of sail. Today, a chartered vessel is like a rented vessel where an individual assumes responsibilities as its owner, similar to when you rent a car or a houseboat. A written agreement is signed whereupon the renter (charterer) takes on ownership responsibilities from the vessel’s true owner. The charterer is responsible for all materials to operate it (the crew, insurance, fuel, stores, etc.). This can be categorized as a vessel “chartered without crew”, also referred to as a bareboat charter. In some cases the true owner of the vessel designates specifically who operates their vessel when it’s under charter. This is known as “chartered with crew”. Whereas if you are the true owner of the vessel and operate it, this is a non chartered vessel and the passengers if they contribute consideration are passengers for hire.

These circumstances represent 3 important vessel categories:
(1) Not Chartered, (2) Chartered without Crew, (3) Charted with Crew. Use the following chart to find your U.S. Federal requirements.

Do note there are important legal distinctions between 1) a passenger [free onboard, not having any responsibilities in the operation of the vessel]; 2) a passenger for hire [someone who has given consideration for carriage]; and 3) crew [someone who has responsibilities in the operation of the vessel, i.e., galley hand, watch keeper].

The Federal requirements can be found in USCG NVIC 07-94, 46 USC 2101 and http://www.uscgboating.org/ . You’ll also need to check for local [city and county] and individual state requirements.

[EarlWer]

Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo

I have known Kim and Simon for over eight years, they are a talented and honorable couple sharing their cruising lifestyle. For a fee others can join them on their Oyster yacht, but obviously many cannot afford to do so.

Their fee is a bargain.

Sorry. They may be nice people, but $640 US per day is NOT a bargain. (Single person at $4,500 per week). Note that they don't use the word crew, so that's good.

Then again, it depends. If someone has zero sailing experience, then maybe it could be useful. ...and if you have $4,500 for a week, you can probably afford a boat ;-)

There is a wide spectrum of roles, from 'passenger' to 'crew'.
At the ends, the roles are clear. The middle part is where it could be ambiguous, especially when money and expectations are not mentioned.

I will update my profile at the various sites to clearly state what I am looking for and what I can offer.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We have never asked, expected, or accepted payment from crew.

Our feeling is that if they are willing to come aboard and help us do a passage or sail a race (or just a daysail), then we owe them; without their assistence we might not have been able to complete the trip.

On the other hand there are people who try various ways to get the money they need to support their boating. Youtube channels come to mind, as do asking crew to contribute "costs".

That is not us. It cuts too close to being a tacky business.

However, we do appreciate our crew. Our crew members become part of our family. Over the years the Wings' family has become quite large. I doubt that would have happened if we expected them to "contribute".

Spot on Wingsail, my feelings exactly. In addition, the boat owner should be amenable to providing a small allowance for port stops (not enough to buy the whole village but just some pocket change for a beer or lunch) On extended voyages these people have no income (unless they're using your boat as their You Tube platform). While the experience they gain may be priceless, this is in no way a career move.

[DHLyman]

Looking to crew on a yacht, on the east coast, perhaps offshore to Bermuda and the Caribbean? Go to www.SailOPO.com. It’s a crew network that puts owners and delivery skippers inn touch with sailors who want to build up sea time. Been in business for 20 years. It’ll cost you, but you’ll get crew opening notices weekly during the delivery seasons. I’ve used OPO (Offshore Passage Opportunities) on half a dozen deliveries, Maine to the Caribbean. Last one was last year.

[tootalltony]

If you want to help crew on a sailboat..... join OPO (offshore passage opportunities)
Hank Schmidt is the owner and a good friend. Mostly the opportunities are for delivering boats on the east coast.........Southbound in the fall, northbound in the spring. Membership is around $150/ yr. You will need to have a detailed resume of you're experience. Generally crew pay for their transportation to get to and from the boat, but all food, fuel and boat expenses are paid by the owner or captain. Most trips are way off shore and can be 8 to 10 days long......so its not for everyone. you will most likely be required to do solo watches and some watches are in the middle of the night. Check it out