Strange Body Of Water?

[CaptainK]

Like my other posting, about the Bermuda Triangle. I thought I'd post one here as well.

I have read a little bit about the mysterious Bermuda Triangle. And I read that there are other areas in this world similar, to the Bermuda Triangle.

I have read a book many years ago. That there's an area right off the coast of Japan. Called the Devils' Triangle? And that one point starts off the coast of Japan. And one point ends up off the coast of Taiwan. The third point ends up in the body of water in the middle of the ocean, just due west of the Marianas.

If anybody has any dealings with this vast region of open water. Weither it is by sailing or flying over this region. Anything about their compasses not pointing to true north? And probably had mysterious electrical malfunctions? Please post your thoughts. People who are new to sailing can learn alot. About the myths, & the truth about this vast body of water.

Also to note that this is part of the Pacific Rim. The ring of fire. Where some of the worlds most active volcanoes are. Even underwater, these most active volcanoes in the world are located. Even adding mystery. And danger to well be travelers. I have heard about cargo ships have disappeared. Probably sank due to the underwater volcanic eruptions? You could add volcanoes to this part of the topic as well. Since we are discussing this part of the Devils' Triangle.

I look forward to any further discussion. Since we are all sailors here. Need to find truth, from the myths. And make these facts solid, and stout examples of what to really expect out there in that region, of the Pacific ocean.

[Alan Wheeler]

The area off Japan is actually called the Devils Sea. The Mariana trench is a little further south and is the site of the deepest sea sounding known, called the Challenger Deep. It's close to 36,000ft deep (off the top of my head). These sites are where the continetal plates of two land masses are colliding. One plate is plunging down, creating these vastly deep trenches. The other plate is being lifted up, creating the land masses of Japan and many of the islands in the Pacific. New Zealand being one. Because of this enormouse techtonic activity, many volcanoes are dotted all over. Some never get above sea level, some become islands and atolls.
We have on average about 2 earth quakes per day here. Most are hardly noticed.
Take a look at this. It's a real jaw dropper. Especially when you look at the 10yr history of close to the surface activity. It gives a good outline as to why the land mass is shapped the way it is.
http://www.geonet.org.nz/recent_quakes.html

[CaptainK]

Wheels,

I believe in you, in what you say about the earthquakes. How do you think California and the entire west coast, for all that matter got formed?

Including other places like England. Africa. Australia. Yes, New Zealand too!!

The mass majority of the islands around the world are formed from volcanic activties from thousands to millions of years work. Including the movement and seperation of the landmasses (continents) moving away from eachother? Just to throw into the conversation.

[CaptainK]

44 Acres of Coastline Collapse in Hawaii

Dec 02 7:02 PM US/Eastern

HAWAII VOLCANOES NATIONAL PARK, Hawaii - About 44 acres of coastline collapsed into the ocean this week, setting loose a glowing stream of lava that shot out from the newly exposed cliffside 45 feet above the water. The plume, 6 feet in diameter, sent up a tower of steam as it hit the water and began forming a ramp of new land.

The collapse of solidified lava shelf and sea cliff Monday was the largest since Kilauea Volcano began its current eruption in 1983.

Jim Kauahikaua, scientist-in-charge of the U.S. Geological Survey's Hawaiian Volcano Observatory, said a collapse warning was issued in June because the shelf had become large and had formed cracks. Large collapses had happened in the area before.

Rumblings tipped scientists to Monday's collapse, which took about 4 1/2 hours. Even at that relatively slow pace, the effect was spectacular.

"The cliff just caved away like a glacier," said park spokesman Jim Gale. "It just sheared off that old wall. There's this gigantic steam plume and you see the red just falling down _ an incredible fire hose display."

The collapse sent out globs of lava and head-size boulders. Sheets of volcanic glass called limu o Pele, after the Hawaiian goddess of fire, and thin strands of volcanic glass known as Pele's hair were found 1,800 feet inland.

Forum readers can visit a National Park Website:

http://www.nps.gov/havo/

[Amac]

I have several thousand hours of flight time within the Bermuda triangle. I have never seen anything remotely alien, magical, or otherwise out of the ordinary there.

Yes, the area can brew up some big storms on short notice, but that's a function of the weather and the Gulf Stream.

[BC Mike]

There is evidence that NZ popped up from the sea, caused by volcanoes. Also some Maori legends that say it was caught by Kupe while fishing. So when an elderly lady claimed there were dinasor bones in NZ, she was told she was nuts. So she went out and found the bones. How did they get there if NZ popped up from the sea ? Did they swim ?
Michael

[CaptainK]

Well that's all it is. A Maori legend!!

Legends can be stories of fiction. And some legends can be based on fact?

[delmarrey]

And how did sea shells get at 8,000 feet up in Arizona?



Grand Canyon

They walked

[CaptainK]

No They hitchhiked their way there!!

Opposing thumbs came later, but legs, now that's another story

[Alan Wheeler]

Because that area of Arizona was once under the ocean. IT was seafloor.
New Zealand is rather unique. It's long and complex.
There are three distinct phases of NZ's creation. The final phase is broken into part 1 and 2.
About 520-300 mill yrs ago, it was a very different world. Most of all the landmass was one giant contenent called Gondwanaland. What was to someday become NZ was just an area of volcanic activity of the shore of this huge continent. Basically along "it's" contenetal shelf. Volcanic activity eventually created land above sea level and sediment and soil was created and eroded etc. All along, the shelf area was the edge of what was the Pacific Ocean and this ocean floor was slipping under the huge landmass of Gondwanaland and pushing NZ up into the air. This uplifting is thought to be about 370 mill yrs ago and is what formed the Western land mass of NZ.

Phase 2 was the creation of the Eastern land mass. This is thought to be from 300-130 mill yrs ago. Further collsion and uplift created an normousely high mountain region. Thought to maybe be higher than everest.

Phase 3a. About 85mill yrs ago, What is now the Tasman Sea basin was started as a rift between the Land mass of the giant contenent. The Contenent was starting to break up. Australia, New Zealand and Antartica was basicallyall together. The rift grew and New Zealand seperated away to the east. Antartica slowly drifted South.
At 60 mill yrs, the Tasman sea was fully opened up.
Phase 3b.
The land mass of New Zealand was now on it's own and it's rate of erosion was greater than it's uplift. It eventually eroded away and at about 25mill yrs ago it was all mostly under the sea again.
In the last 23 mill yrs, there has been renewed uplift. The Pacific plate is plunging down under the Tasman. The Tasman plate is lighter sedimentary rock and tends to lift up over the Pacific Plate creating our mountain chain.
Parts of NZ are on teh Tasman plate and parts are on the Pacific and traveling different directions. The Pacific is traveling South west at about 38mm per year.
The story is told mostly by the fossiles of sea creatures of the variouse era's. Animals didn't really come along till about 65mill yrs ago. And even then, they were larger Sea creatures like the Plesiosaur and the Mosasaur.
We didn't have land dwelling mamals as such that were on the larger contenents. What did get here, were large birds and just about all became flightless, because there were no preditors. NZ was home to the largest Bird to ever walk the face of the Earth. the Giant Moa. Mate, you want to see the Drum sticks on that thing. We have smaller reptiles, the Tuatara being the largest, which is still small compared to the large lizards around the world.
What animals we have here today, were either blown across the Tasman, or introduced in the last hunderd years or so. With catastrophic results.
Hope that was of some interest.

Absolutely fascinating! So is big bird good eatin?
With all the changes that go on with land masses, and the sea, it is not surprising that there are areas of the Earth that so not play by the rules. Whether it is giant gas bubbles, or moving continental plates creating a sudden void in the middle of the ocean, is really irrelevant to the fact that it would be nieve to consider these areas just a myth.

[Alan Wheeler]

The really interesting thing, with myths that is, is that if you go back far enough in history, the basic story can sometimes be true. I have seen this in many cultures.
Like the story that Kupe was at sea in his Waka. Waka is the Maori word for a canoe. The South Island was supposed to be his Waka, so theoreticaly the story is telling us that the South Island was here long before the North Island. In the bigger scheme of things, this is actually true. So back to the story, The North Island was a giant fish that Kupe caught. He fought with it and pulled it up and then clubbed it to kill it. The club marks are the valleys and mountains. Interesting that the North Island rose up from the Seabed well after the South Island. Now I am not saying I believe the myth. What I am saying is that someone either just had a very wild story that was coincidence, or some very ancient people understood geology enough to make up a bed time story for the children, that was very close to the truth of how the land formed, millions of years before man was even on earth.

It is reasonable to assume that people although not having equal technology, certainly had equal intelligence at that time in history. THe ability to figure out what happened, without understanding how it happened is not surprising.
Wheels, you know your history well.