WEST method boats – wood and GRP – are they OK?

[coastalexplorer]

My cold moulded Coast 30 is only 35 years old there is no rot yet. There is another one for sale an Ioco yacht club 1993 vintage. 34 foot long that they will not take less than $20,000 CDN for it.

[KJB]

We own a strip plank constructed vessel which, at 37 years old (built 1980), is still quite sound. As I understand it, the planks were edge glued forming an extremely strong hull. BTW, this vessel was built to go offshore. However she has no GRP on or in her.

The interior hull was completely coated with epoxy, which seems a different approach, but it has worked well. I asked the folks at Smith's CPES whether I should put epoxy on a wooded hull exterior, they advised not to, since the interior was coated. FWIW

[nwdiver]

These guys only do wood epoxy construction now........

Custom Sailing Yachts // Covey Island Boatworks // Custom Yachts for the World Since 1979

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Sam Devlin was the first stitch 'n glue builder in the US. You would never guess his boats are plywood & epoxy.

Devlin Designing Boat Builders – Artfully Designed and Crafted Boats since 1978
2000 Devlin Sockeye 42' Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Since '78? What took the US so long to adopt it?

I built a stitch and glue kayak in the UK in 1964-65.

[catsketcher]

Barnakiel has the right to his opinion - but it flies in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Strip plank cedar boats are great boats. The cedar is highly rot resistant, the use of epoxy glues and fillers means that the gap filling qualities are first rate allowing amateurs to produce high quality hulls. There should be absolutely no degradation of a properly built strip plank cedar hull.

I worked for a top notch cat builder on a strip plank hull to gain some experience before I built my own. The technique was very easy and very hard to get wrong. There are hundreds of race and offshore cruising built from strip cedar in New Zealand and Australia. I have not heard of any failures to do with the build method - it is very stiff, light and rugged.

Like the Cate's my 17 year old amateur built strip boat is as strong as the day it was launched. It is a great build method.

Along with the reduction in amateur building probably the main reason that foam is more common now is the drop in foam cost. Otherwise you would still build in cedar.

cheers

Phil

[knockabout]

timber and marine epoxy combination works well / the epoxy is soaked in to the timber and usually epoxy sheathing using various grades of cloth is applied to protect the hull from the usual bump and grind and marine pests

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by StuM

Since '78? What took the US so long to adopt it?

I built a stitch and glue kayak in the UK in 1964-65.

Since the Brits didn't call it stitch and glue back then it doesn't count.

Actually I believe Devlin was the first commercial boat builder to adopt stitch and glue which he really took to another level. I you've never seen one of his boats they are really works of art.

[Catmandu]

This is an very interesting question that I struggled with 3 years ago. I mean *really* struggled with so I will try to pass on what I have learned in hopes that it will help.

We were looking at performance cruising cats (Catana, Outremer ... ) and happened on this one:

DH 550 Plywood Cruising catamaran

It was collaborative design by Dudley Dix and Phil Harvey. Phil built the first two Gunboat 62's and took all of his ocean sailing experience and his experience working with Gunboat and designed and built this boat for himself to sail around the world with his family.

I asked him why he chose WEST systems over a carbon fiber: His answer: very light and very stiff (almost as stiff as carbon fiber) but the most easy structure to repair anywhere in the world. You can repair the boat with simple hand tools, epoxy and sandpaper. He did not want to be stuck trying to repair a carbon boat in a remote area of the world. ( Apparently there were some incidences where Gunboats were damaged and had to be "airlifted" to the US or Asia where they could be repaired.)

As stated earlier, its all in the design & execution. If you keep all of the wood covered it will last a LONG time. Having owned the boat for 3+ years I have come to love this method of construction. In two cases we have had to make repairs due to hardware mounted directly to the wood structure without the over-drilling/epoxy technique recommended by WEST. The repairs were done with simple hand tools and in less than two days.

The boat is very light and stiff compared to other 55' cats. She weighs 4-5T less than a Cantana 52 (great boat btw) ... about 14T completely loaded out with fuel, water and all of our junk which is REALLY LIGHT for a 55' cat.

Here is what having a light stiff cat allows: Sailing 10 kts in 10 kts of wind ... notice the wakes and how cleanly the water exits the transoms:

https://youtu.be/rX8RZ648iCU

All this being said YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL about the design and the attention to detail during construction. Our boat was "screwed and glued" together and then screws were removed and the holes filled with epoxy. Then more layers of epoxy applied. As it turns out, one screw out of hundreds was mistakenly left behind and after seven years of tropical rainstorms we saw evidence in the form of a tiny blister. This led to a repair that took less than two days and $30.00 of materials to fix. My experience has been that it is much easier to modify or fix a wood epoxy boat than a FRP boat and the structure is light and very stiff - no creaking even at speed in big ocean waves.

Parting shot: It turns out that the highest performance custom sport fishing boats are made the same way: They are stronger, stiffer and 3/4 the weight of a Viking of similar size and therefor go faster with smaller engines:

see Paul Mann Custom Boats - Home ... Yes these "wood boats" cruise at 45+ kts in the open ocean!

The downside to this method of construction is that its more costly especially in labor compared to female moulded FRP boats but because of the increased performance they are highly sought after among the tournament fishing crowd.

Yes it is a very strong way to build a boat that will last a long time if done right.

[s/v Jedi]

My first "boat" was a stitch and glue Mirror Dinghy :-)
About strip planking vs plywood: you can cut plywood in strips and use those for strip planking. Now you have it all :-)

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

My first "boat" was a stitch and glue Mirror Dinghy :-)
About strip planking vs plywood: you can cut plywood in strips and use those for strip planking. Now you have it all :-)

Whoa there...
My plywood came in wide thin strips already glued together so why re-cut it into strips again....

I like to think that my epoxy coated ply boat is cold moulded 90 degree vertical strip planked hull with a horizontal strip planked deck. I reckon it is best of all worlds - timber - planking - cold moulded - plastic (epoxy)

[roland stockham]

The crucial word here is 'encapsulated' that means completely coated on all sides by an impermeable epoxy barrier which must be maintained for the life of the boat. One badly fitted through hull can break that seal and if water gets in it will rot out the wood. Same as the problem with balsa cored decks. Like all boats it's only as good as it's initial build and ongoing maintenance. If it has significant water penetration can be uneconomic to repair. I would carefully check the weight against its launch spec if that is available or look to sea if she floats on the original waterline

[Don C L]

Hmm, I was surprised by that comment about strip planking being "marginal" too... very odd, never heard that. Heard the opposite though. I think a better question for this thread is have any (properly cared for) cold-molded boats suffered rot? I still haven't heard of ONE, but then I'm definitely no expert.
I always thought "Sweet Okole" really helped seal it for cold molding long ago... jeez, that was a while back.
Now, MY hull, cold molded.... with a lighter carbon fiber mast? Oooh, That would be sweet.

[Captain Krook]

Thanks everybody for all the great answers! It has been most valuable!

[mitiempo]

Windward Passage was cold molded as well.

Windward Passage: The Making of a Legend >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

[sueanderic]

We are sailing a 1995 Thomas Gilllmer gaff rigged ketch. the construction method was mahogany strip plank, 1 1/4" thick. West System epoxy. No problems so far, 22 years.
cheers, Eric and Sue