The Frugal (AKA poor) Sailor

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Azul

Here is my sub $7000 "girl," before and after some sweat equity (which I considered inexpensive therapy.)

What a nice job on cleaning and improving the appearance! Good job!

[sailorboy1]

Near as I can tell "frugal" on this thread isn't the correct word. I feel I'm frugal, I'm just not really that other word.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Near as I can tell "frugal" on this thread isn't the correct word. I feel I'm frugal, I'm just not really that other word.

Sailorboy, people often tend to spend what we can. With a home and a boat, you're living pretty high on the hog, for a frugal sailor thread. After the house is sold, if that's what you do, then you'll start learning more about frugal.
Honestly, I think our boat disqualifies us, for a frugality thread, too, and yet, there are those who despair of us because of our [ouch] cheapness.

It's a funny old world.

Ann

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Sailorboy, people often tend to spend what we can. With a home and a boat, you're living pretty high on the hog, for a frugal sailor thread. After the house is sold, if that's what you do, then you'll start learning more about frugal.
Honestly, I think our boat disqualifies us, for a frugality thread, too, and yet, there are those who despair of us because of our [ouch] cheapness.

It's a funny old world.

Ann

Ann, What Jim and you do to save a buck or two is precisely the information required for persons of lesser financial abilities. For some saving money is not a necessity, but a way of life and for others its an absolute requirement. Either way, in order to be a sailor, some need the hobby to be on a strict financial track. They have a life to live and wish to include boat ownership within it.

[Azul]

Perhaps the biggest difference between being cheap and frugal is the difference between loving money and loving being in control of your time. To enjoy being frugal requires having a little creativity, a positive attitude and an ability to adapt. I've done the conspicuous consumer lifestyle/fancy job title thing, it just doesn't suit me to spend most of my time making money. Talk about excessive upkeep... here are a few examples ha-

[weavis]

I did choose the word "Frugal" carefully.........

Yes I can see that the upkeep on your lifestyle would be heavy

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Crosis

Frankly I have found over the years that the person with the low dollar boat and the least equipment is BY FAR a better sailor than the rich guy with the giant electronics package and the 100 grand yacht.


Ironically, in recent thread I was told by CF members that I need an expensive boat and then another 100 grand in upgrades to have a seaworthy boat good for living aboard and cruising. These are the people I would be very very nervous going cruising with and losing sight of land. If you need 100 grand in crap to sail a boat the you don't know crap about sailing. Frugal sailing is real sailing.

Yes indeed... the only good sailors are sailors just like ME. The rest of you are pretentious wankers, and are a danger to humanity...

Sheesh!

Jim

[oldragbaggers]

Good job choosing your term, Weavis. When I hear someone being called cheap it usually seems a derogatory term, whereas I think frugality is much to be admired.

To me the difference between the frugal and the cheap: the cheap person is the one who, when he/she is invited to the pot luck says he won't be able to attend so won't be bringing anything, but always manages to show up at the last minute and make a plate. The frugal person is the one who happily brings a nice economical bean dish to share (usually sticking around after to help clean up). Cheap people often have the money but won't spend it, especially if they can find a way to get someone else to pick up the tab. (I once had a relative, r.i.p. , who had plenty of money, and his favorite phrase was, "never give away anything you can sell and never pay for anything you can get for free." As much as I loved him I don't mind saying he was one of the cheapest people I have ever known.) Frugal people find creative ways to live and meet their own needs within their means, either by working harder, scaling down their expectations, living with less, or a combination of all of the above.

Most of the "cheap" people I know are rarely happy because they are always focused on how not to part with any of their precious cash. Whereas most of the frugal people I have known are usually minimalists by nature and are content with the simpler things in life.

This certainly isn't true in every case and may not be a definition that others will agree with, but it's a generalization that works for me.

Of course there are always the "others" that are neither frugal nor cheap, and don't need to be. But they would be the subject of another thread.

[a64pilot]

You have to be careful though, I mentioned to my wife that once cruising we could save money buying our clothes from second hand stores.
I don't think that went over well , two steps frward, one step backward, gotta learn when saying nothing is better


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[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You have to be careful though, I mentioned to my wife that once cruising we could save money buying our clothes from second hand stores.
I don't think that went over well , two steps frward, one step backward, gotta learn when saying nothing is better


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I've been buying all of my clothes in thrift stores for the past 8 years. It started back when I was going through a weight loss process, 80 pounds over the course of several years. Every few months I needed a smaller size so I decided I would just shop thrift stores until I got done losing my weight and would then treat myself to a new wardrobe. Well, once I got hooked on paying pennies on the dollar for nicer clothes than I could have ever afforded at the mall, I never looked back. I work in a professional office and I wear a lot of nice designer suits that I get many compliments on, and I pay less than WalMart prices. Not all thrift/consignment stores are created equal. It's like with real estate, location is important. Don't knock it until you've tried it. There's a lot of satisfaction in coming home with a big bag of Ann Taylor, New York & Co., Talbots, and Tahari for less than I'd pay for one outfit of lesser quality at the mall. Of course I can't wait until I don't need all these work clothes, but I'm sure glad I discovered thrift stores.

I also recycle clothing I no longer wear back to the thrift store so someone else gets to benefit.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW, lots of long term cruisers, many of whom would qualify as frugal, shop the thrift stores for clothing. And yes, ones near up-market neighborhoods tend to have more up-market items in stock. Some of them up their prices to match...

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Ways we save $$:

Anchor out except for when we have to leave the boat in a marina for travel or repair.

Jim does 99.97% of all the work on the boat--and I'm his gofer.

I buy almost all my clothes at places like Salvation Army and St. Vincent, with the exception of undergarments. UV is so hard on fabrics, and quality here so low, that new stuff looks 2nd hand in 6 months. Why sweat it? Leave with what you like, and replace as necessary. Keep the clothing simple. Honestly, I like the concept of re-cycling clothing, and feel very comfortable with it. I first began using St. Vinnie's when money was tight after my ex left us, and I needed work clothes. So while the practice was driven by poverty in the beginning, I grew to like the lack of concern about the cost of a "new" blouse, or pair of slacks or shorts.

Dumpster diving outside pricey marinas yields all manner of useable 2nd hand stuff: slightly stained jib sheet got used for our trolling generator line; found an outboard motor fuel can (5 gal.), used for years. I don't think it's bad manners, or despicable, I think it's fun, sorta like a treasure hunt.

We also save because we do not run a genset; we do not have a freezer; we have only one head; no washing machine, no watermaker. We are self sufficient for electricity, and our autopilot is our highest power consumption item, more than the electric refrigeration. We live within our power generation capacity, have wind, solar, and engine charging. We mostly sail, not motor or motorsail.

Simplicity. We have foot pumps for the galley and head sinks. The only pressure water is for the shower (with flash heater) in the head, and on the stern. We have an electric washdown pump now, and love it, but managed without for 20 yrs.

We live within our income, and some years, still save. So the attitude is "why spend more than you need to?"

We cultivate an awareness of how advertising tries to separate us from our hard earned sheckels, and resist its appeal.

We buy the least expensive wine we're content to drink. But wine's a luxury. The attitude has to do with deeply understanding what is a need (food, rest, shelter, water), and what is a luxury.

That's all I can think of at the moment that someone might benefit from. The core concept is to live comfortably within one's income, save for future expenses, and we have had no debt now, since 1988.

Ann

Th

[a64pilot]

She has bought clothes from consignment shops off and on for years, especially kids clothes as they grow out of them so fast.
Where I blew it was popping off as we drove by the local Mission in Panama City that had the sign out "All clothes $1" Of course that is what made me think to say that, although I didn't mean places like that, but you know that is what worried her.


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[Mike OReilly]

Ann, Becky, a64pilot, Jim ... a big Becky, I especially love your distinction between frugal and cheap. And Ann, we (both me and my Ann) are with you all the way, especially with the wine comment .

What's the saying; Some people know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing. This seems to me another way to sum up the difference between the frugal and the cheap. And I hope I don't have to tell you which one this saying applies to .

Nice thread Weavis .

[a64pilot]

In my life, I've been around one or two very wealthy people, and a lot of them are frugal. I define frugal as buying something for it's function and quality as opposed to it's brand name.

Years ago when my Brother was in College he worked in Saks Fifth Avenue in Atlanta selling shoes, he had one customer come in dressed pretty plain etc and wanted to buy two pairs of shoes, well he called in the charge because based on her dress and mannerisms he didn't think she could afford them. Turned out she and her Husband owned C&S bank, which at the time was a very big bank.

My Father was not a poor man, yet he dressed very plain and country, amazing at how people will treat you sometimes based on your dress, but do you want to do business with those type of people?

Most often the people that flash the Rolex and drive the expensive car, wear the "right" clothes etc., can barely afford them and are mortgaged to the hilt just to put the charade that they are wealthy, and therefore important. These are usually real PIA's, they demand special treatment, etc. I will not associate myself with these types, but that's fine as they don't want my type either
Amazingly you can have both types in the same family, I never have understood that.


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