Taxes, how do they know?

[Aquadome]

Buy the boat and register it in an offshore jurisdiction. Hey Betsy DeVos registered hers in the Marshall Islands.

[Checkswrecks]

I've had the same airplane experience mentioned and learned that it's pretty easy for States to know vehicle ownership, whether airplane, boat, or road.

A number of folks mentioned bridges. The Maryland and Virginia tax people do visit marinas and it'd be very unsurprising to hear that marinas or insurance companies need to report vessels. But simpler, as soon as the seller turned in his title with the name of the new owner (some States the bill of sale) the names go into the computer and the States share that data. Plus, every State subscribes to the big three credit agencies (Equifax etc) for data so if you took out a loan or even applied for one, you're there for the States again. If you transferred or paid more than $10,000, your transaction went into a financial data base through your bank.

On the road to buy the boat, if you use your VISA to buy fuel to go to Delaware you're in the credit system that banks and States share. If you use cash, vehicle EZPasses (by whatever name) and license plates are constantly being scanned, even if you didn't go through toll booths.

A lot of these data bases by themselves won't provide the key for the tax people, but combined they are a powerful tool. And sifting through data for results is what computers do best.

Pay your taxes or move (for real) to a less developed country.

[scarlet]

This is very interesting conversation. Just to reiterate, I follow the rule of law, (obsessively, actually...) So, I'm not trying to avoid taxes. I was just extremely curious as to how they know.

The reason for the curiosity is that we just moved from St. Louis to Leavenworth, and we ran into a similar situation here with our cars. In the course of the move. we needed to re-license our cars in Kansas.. but there were some discrepancies as to time frame to do that. (DH moved here 4 months before I did, as we were selling our house, so we both had different move dates, but we did establish residency even though only half of us were living here.. blah blah blah). During the course of working out that situation, I asked how they would know that we were now in KS and not Missouri, (we are a mile from the boarder)... I was told that they would discover that we were living here if I was every stopped for a traffic violation, or if someone reported me. It was further complicated by us having paid taxes in Missouri, and, my car was brought to Kansas MONThs after my husband's... it was complicated, and we needed to get things right.

I do find it interesting, and a bit terrifying actually, that everyone is so closely monitored in the boating community. as per comments above, water patrols checking your stickers, storing in data bases, disclosing your info at every bridge, credit card receipts..marina's reporting, etc.. etc... I guess big brother is watching us even more closely thank I thought. And, as technology improves, this will only get worse...

I remember one time, when I was working in St. Louis, I thought i would try to see if I could make it from my home to my place of employment without passing through a traffic camera.. (I don't know why.. I guess I was bored of the daily commute, and wanted to make it into a game).. tried dozens of routes, and was never able to avoid cameras completely...

To me, I guess, paying taxes is child's play compared to being monitored, everywhere. Taxes, I'll gladly pay.. (it's the price of being a citizen in a country I love with all my heart)... but all the monitoring? Is it just me, or does it feel like a loss of a little freedom?

Anyway... thanks for the info.. it was definitely an interesting discussion...

[Checkswrecks]

Definitely a loss of freedom in what we think of as a free country. The flip side is that NOBODY is watching ANYBODY if not given a reason to spend the resources.

[Cheechako]

If they happen to note your boat on a marina inspection and find you've been in FL for longer than 90 days you may end up paying. But I suspect the odds are low that would happen if you move around. I doubt they would have info for how long you've been in FL. I bought a boat in Fl, moved out for over 90 days and registered in FL when returned with minimal tax consequence. I told them I was having major work done on the boat up north. I wasn't asked for proof of being out of state, but thought I would be.
Also your home state has no idea if your boat has actually been there.

[john61ct]

There are millions of cameras on roads you would never know were there.

Tied in with both license plate and facial recognition.

Routine data stored for decades, no human looking at any of ot, but AIs getting smarter.

Tied into the databases from our voluntarily carried tracking comms hardware aka phones.

Soon as an event, action, or communications makes you a "person of interest", they can "rewind" all the historical data and connect you with your associates.

But not to worry, officials are all public-spirited ethical people. . .

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Aquadome

Buy the boat and register it in an offshore jurisdiction. Hey Betsy DeVos registered hers in the Marshall Islands.

FL, and many other States, will want their tax if in the State over specified time (varies by State) regardless of where registered.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

In the first place, to avoid paying use tax to Florida you have to own and use the boat for 6 months -- not 90 days -- outside of Florida. In the second place, the "OWN AND USE" part is important. You cannot just let the boat sit for 6 months and a day, come down to Florida, and expect to avoid paying the tax. They figured that dodge out a long time ago. They have taken people to court who have tried this, and have won in cases where the people could not provide things like gas or pump-out receipts, or something, to prove that they were actually USING the boat before they brought it to Florida.


Also, as others have pointed out, documenting your boat with the USCG absolutely DOES NOT exempt you from the requirement to register it in Florida (or any other state that I'm aware of). It does exempt you from the requirement to have a title for your boat, but that is all.


As for how they know... They have a variety of ways to collect information. The truth, though, is that there's a fair chance that you can break the law and get away with it. In fact, there are a lot of people who make a living doing this. We have a word for them: "CRIMINAL!" And when they finally do get caught -- as many of them do -- I have absolutely NO sympathy for them.


Do whatever you can to legally avoid taxes and I will probably admire your ingenuity. Evade taxes by breaking the law, though, and that's a whole different matter. Don't expect any admiration, respect, or sympathy from anyone, in that case.

I accidentally got away with not having my previous Documented boat registered in FL for a while. Years ago if a boat was Documented it was not also required to be registered in many States. I thought that was the case in FL too, but one day an official (forget which branch) out on patrol noticed I had no FL sticker and dropped by for a chat. I explained why and we had a very civil chat about FL law. Since I was clearly not trying to get away w something he didnt fine me. I was then able to register the boat in FL w no taxes due because I could prove payment of sales tax back in TX.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I was then able to register the boat in FL w no taxes due because I could prove payment of sales tax back in TX.

I don;t know why this isn't clear to everyone but apparently some seem unable to comprehend this point. If you are in Fl over 90 days and you haven't paid sales tax elsewhere, FL requires you pay it.



What happens in St Louis, Maryland, Maine, etc. is irrelevant.


If you sail outside the 3 mile limit, the clock doesn't reset. That's ridiculous and is simple tax evasion which affects all the rest of us.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I don;t know why this isn't clear to everyone but apparently some seem unable to comprehend this point. If you are in Fl over 90 days and you haven't paid sales tax elsewhere, FL requires you pay it.



What happens in St Louis, Maryland, Maine, etc. is irrelevant.


If you sail outside the 3 mile limit, the clock doesn't reset. That's ridiculous and is simple tax evasion which affects all the rest of us.

Same in Texas too. I bought a boat sales tax exempt in FL, then moved it (a few years later) to Texas. They started snooping around for taxes, the sales tax exempt confused them long enough that I had the boat out of Texas before they figured it out. [emoji41]

Personally, I think this "havent paid taxes elsewhere" provision is outside the authority of the States since the original transaction didnt happen in their jurisdiction, but I dont know if thats been tested in court.

I suspect it was written that way to try and circumvent the questionable practice of doing the closing outside the terretorial limits of Florida. Literally brokers would set the closing up aboard the boat just outside the limits and include a picture of the GPS in the closing documents to avoid FL sales tax.

[sailorboy1]

All you paranoid people, be advised that “they” really are out to get you. Not everyone else, just you!

[zboss]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

They don't, especially if you aren't in a marina.

But you should better review your number of days reqt for being in DE and the time needed not to be in Florida far as taxes and registration are concerned.

Totally untrue.... the cops walk the docks and they DO make a note of the vessels that are there. I’ve seen it here in Saint Augustine and I’ve seen it at west palm beach.

Originally Posted by Mojadito

Keep in mind, if you stay in Florida for more than 90 days, you must register and pay the taxes. If you leave Florida (a quick cruise just outside the 3 mile limit), then it resets the clock and you have another 90 days

Again... totally untrue. How do you prove that you went offshore?


Just pay the sales and use tax in Florida and be done with it if you are planning on spending more than 6 months a year here.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

.......
If you sail outside the 3 mile limit, the clock doesn't reset. That's ridiculous and is simple tax evasion which affects all the rest of us.

I tend to argee with you on this, but if you read the actual wording in the FL boating laws its not really clear. There are a half a dozen places dealing with time periods in days in the boating statues. Some say xx 'consecutive days' while others say xx 'days'. The part concerning the reciprocity exemption for out of state vessels says '90 days'. It doesn't say consecutive or per year.
It seems to be interpreted as per-year but not sure this correct.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by zboss

Totally untrue.... the cops walk the docks and they DO make a note of the vessels that are there. I’ve seen it here in Saint Augustine and I’ve seen it at west palm

Maybe you should read the quotes you use to make counter statements better

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Since I was clearly not trying to get away w something he didnt fine me.

Glad to hear you weren't fined. It is one thing to fail to pay taxes because you honestly thought you weren't required to. It is quite another to knowingly and deliberately violate the laws.


Of course, some would argue that "ignorance of the law is no excuse," and that is true. Still, there are a lot of laws where the penalties are substantially less -- or even nonexistent -- if you do not knowingly violate them. Income tax laws in the U.S. are a good example. If you make an unwitting mistake there are penalties for that. If you deliberately commit fraud, however, the penalties are far more severe.