Question for Seatow and Towboatus patrons.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by radsailor

The only bad experience I had in 50+ years of sailing is when I was a kid. I had a 16' sloop. A large cabin cruiser went close by at speed setting up a relatively large wake. The impact ripped a chain plate out of the hull and got dismasted. The son of a bitch did not even slow down. I am still pissed 50 years later.

Sounds like poor maintenance issue to me.

Large wake is just a wave, vessel and chain plates should be solid enough to sail in water with waves.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Sounds like poor maintenance issue to me.

Large wake is just a wave, vessel and chain plates should be solid enough to sail in water with waves.

I don't know, I've had big boat wakes rock us worse than 15 foot seas in our sailboats. Powerboats have no idea how much stress their wake can put on a sailing rig. That kind of sudden shock is not what they are designed to take.

We're powerboaters now, but I know, that if we set our throttle a certain way, we can put out a wake that could be considered negligent homicide if it hit somebody in the wrong boat the wrong way.

[scareygary]

I've stopped and helped a number of boats over the years and only regretted it once. I think it was a 30 foot powerboat whose engine quit. I had a 25' sailboat with a 10 hp Yamaha for power. He begged me for a tow. i towed the guy about 5 miles into Friday Harbor, WA, but could only make about 3 knots with him back there. The sucker got on channel 16 and kept begging for a powerboat to tow him because I was so slow, but, of course, no one came to his aid. It took me almost 2 hours to get him in and the guy never even offered a thank you, let alone a cold brew.... Something about a 'gift horse's mouth'?

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by BillKny

The implication up front by the OP is that a "disabled vet" deserves something special above and beyond other sailors. Such a person would get no special treatment, but just like anybody else I'd help with what I can.
I will risk my boat, and my ass, to save your ass--but not your assets. I do not have the tools or the boat that can tow you home, or pull you off the reef.

Well, I told myself I wasn't going to respond to this post, but I just HAD to . . .

BillKny: Did I miss something in the first post about the "disabled vet" you reference in your post? The OP stated "disabled vessel" Was THAT what you were referring to? You DO realize that they aren't the same, right?

On stopping, I always stop and ask if assistance is needed. If it is, and I am in a position to safely render it, I do. It's just WHAT YOU DO! Towed many a boat in with mine. Heck, even towed a 19' ski boat (engine quit, outgoing tide, etc) 1/2 mile back to the dock with my little 14' C-Lark, under sail only! Ski boater was terrified that one of his friends would see us and get a pic of his power boat being towed by a sail boat! Never took any money, just asked them to pay it forward. Some day I may need assistance, and I hope someone like minded is around to offer it.

On Sea Tow, as soon as we finalize purchase of next boat, I will get it. I have 10k of towing, no deductible on my boat insurance, but if I use it, it may go on my policy as a claim. Claim = higher premiums next time. Better to pay $100/year, not need it, but if I do, it will not go on my insurance as a claim.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Jammer

So, for those of you who pay for memberships in the Seatow or Towboatus programs...

When you encounter a disabled vessel where there is no imminent threat of loss of life or vessel, do you stop and help?

Or do you just figure they should ante up like you did?

You know the whole premise and how this was stated is pretty crappy, and seemingly vilifies boaters who buy tow insurance. I buy it and renew it each year because the two times I have used it, there is a marked difference between being assisted by a professional. Sure, someone can find an experience to tag when Towboat wasn't up to a higher standard, but that is rare. (For each one of those, there is easily a dozen disasters caused by well-meaning volunteers.)

But I can say that because I use the insurance, I won't be a burden on someone else to rescue me from a grounding, or a motor problem. That should be viewed as a positive thing. Does anyone think its more fun to tow a disabled boat for a couple of hours, rather than enjoy being on the water fishing or doing whatever you intended to do originally?

And yes, when someone is disabled, we stop to see if we can help. But when it comes to towing, yeah, I wish they had the insurance too. Who's gonna say, "oh damn, you have insurance. Can I tow you anyway?"

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

You know the whole premise and how this was stated is pretty crappy, and seemingly vilifies boaters who buy tow insurance.

I am honestly trying to understand the mindset.


The last tow I did was a 25' sailboat that was well and thoroughly beached. I later learned that he had engine problems the week before, was blown ashore on a sandy beach within walking distance of a marina, and decided to just leave the boat, hand carry the outboard in for repair, and bring friends to launch the boat the next weekend.


Well, it didn't rain and the river went down at least a foot, and he had his wife and two other couples trying to push 5000 pounds of boat over the sand and into the river. Obviously not an emergency. No one else had any obligation to help. I don't even know if Sea Tow would cover a situation like that.



We had just left the marina for a sail and saw all this going on and came over to take a look. By then they had a shovel or two out and were trying to dig the sand out from under the boat. I ended up throwing him a line and we got them in the water. I departed as they got the two couples aboard and reinstalled the outboard. I kind of kept an eye on things and pretty soon the cowling of the outboard came off, never a good sign, so we circled back and ended up hip towing them into a slip at the marina.


The whole thing took maybe a little over an hour. Nothing broken. Nothing scratched. It was good practice for us, and they were grateful.



I am unsure whether replacing interactions like that with a socially sterile, for-profit, insurance-model towing service improves the boating experience.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I am honestly trying to understand the mindset.

The whole thing took maybe a little over an hour. Nothing broken. Nothing scratched. It was good practice for us, and they were grateful.

I am unsure whether replacing interactions like that with a socially sterile, for-profit, insurance-model towing service improves the boating experience.

I cut out the blah-blah-blah. But now, basically, you are saying that because I choose to have a professional tow our boat off of the shoal, that I am lessening the boating experience? For who - you? Cause I would much rather have the less-stress professional tow me, than provide "good practice" for you. And I have learned some things from the pro's.

Oh, and the interactions were not socially-sterile. The Towboat captains I have met are nice people. They are not robots. They spend their day on the water, and in some instances, actually perform rescues. Maybe you should use one occasionally, and you might learn something, and expand your experiences.

That's "the mindset". We all have "helped someone out" stories. You obviously want to turn this into "I help out more", and people who buy insurance don't, but you are wrong to go there. Next, is it going to be professional diesel mechanics, vs you should be asking the guy down the dock to help with your motor problem?

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by Group9

On our last trip over to the Bahamas, while in the Gulf Stream, we changed course and sailed several miles into the current, and out of our way, because we saw what looked like a mirror flashing a distress signal at us.

When we finally got to the location, it was a somewhat deflated mylar party balloon that was signaling for help.

.....and you probably saved a turtle who would have swallowed the balloon and drowned. I say a job well done.

Abe

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by C.Karo

Failing to rending assistants. You could be legally be held.

My conscience of knowing that real harm could have happened by not rendering assistant is many folds greater than any legal implication. Besides it will be nearly impossible to prove a case that I failed to render assistance. I did not see them and the vhf was off.


Abe

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

My conscience of knowing that real harm could have happened by not rendering assistant is many folds greater than any legal implication. Besides it will be nearly impossible to prove a case that I failed to render assistance. I did not see them and the vhf was off.





Abe

I think yours is a common value still held by sailors all around the globe, whether SeaTow or any other service happens to be available in a particular locale. But there seems to be a few posters who want to sort of lecture everyone else, apparently presuming that some of us would just pass by a fellow boater in need rather than helping. I’m really not sure where this comes from because virtually everyone on here has said they would help a fellow boater and I’ve never observed anyone ignoring a plea for help if they were in a position to offer it. I suppose it must happen occasionally but I’ve never seen it and none of my many “real world” boating friends have ever told me they’ve experienced it. I think that 99.9% help others in need for the same reason you mention that has to do with an inner sense of moral obligation rather than a legal obligation. We help out fellow boaters in need because it’s just the right thing to do and I’m happy to be part of a boating community that embraces that way of thinking.

[endlesspursuit]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I cut out the blah-blah-blah. But now, basically, you are saying that because I choose to have a professional tow our boat off of the shoal, that I am lessening the boating experience? For who - you? Cause I would much rather have the less-stress professional tow me, than provide "good practice" for you. And I have learned some things from the pro's.

Oh, and the interactions were not socially-sterile. The Towboat captains I have met are nice people. They are not robots. They spend their day on the water, and in some instances, actually perform rescues. Maybe you should use one occasionally, and you might learn something, and expand your experiences.

That's "the mindset". We all have "helped someone out" stories. You obviously want to turn this into "I help out more", and people who buy insurance don't, but you are wrong to go there. Next, is it going to be professional diesel mechanics, vs you should be asking the guy down the dock to help with your motor problem?

What if they don't have insurance? Are they now bad people? I remember the days when another $100 was out of the question. We were young and wanted to boat so we did what we could. The kids still remember those days. And on occasion the old boat would break and someone would help. And we did the same. I guess now with Morgan & Morgan times have changed. That seems to be the problem I see on this thread. If you need help and see me coming by just wave, I'm there weather you have insurance or not. Guess it's the old school thing.

[sailorboy1]

I think this thread is starting to make some people crazy.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by endlesspursuit

What if they don't have insurance? Are they now bad people?

Nope, never wrote that, nor implied that. The original post though paints those that have tow insurance as people who therefore won't help others. Or his latest retort, that we are robbing others of their experience in helping us.

I didn't always have tow insurance. As the boats got bigger though, the ability of a well-meaning guy in a fishing boat to pull you off of a shoal decreases. And the likelihood that something gets damaged or someone hurt increases. Just snapping a line can be life threatening.

Also, everyone has to look at their own risk. We live in an area with predominately shallow water. The chance of running aground is pretty high. And a well-stuck 15,000 lb cat can be a challenge. In that instance, I would rather have a professional doing the towing. So given the risk, the insurance cost of $120 per year, and the uninsured tow cost that easily runs 5-6x that, its an easy decision for us.

You have to weigh your own risk.

[endlesspursuit]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I think this thread is starting to make some people crazy.

Yep, I agree. Fair winds.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I think this thread is starting to make some people crazy.

Yeah, the boom just gull-winged jibed and the thread took a hard port turn to Crazy Reef. No towing off that one. Abandon ship! Time to unsubscribe.