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Old 04-03-2018, 04:44   #46
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

The freedom of the seas is being progressively chipped away, isn't it? That's nice if you've got plenty of money. It'll keep out the riffraff so you don't have to rub elbows with them. It's not so nice if you don't, though. Makes it harder to keep sailing.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:03   #47
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

Just another greedy money grub.
Just because we have a boat, they think we are all rich and willing to be squeezed a bit more.
Too bad, I very much disliked having to pay the $300 cruising permit. One more reason not to ever go back there. Just like Croatia.

I have been in hundreds of nicer places and paid nothing for anchoring.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:44   #48
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pirate Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

In the UK there are conservation area's where they charge for anchoring.. Salcombe is just one example..
Some skippers choose to anchor rather than use the moorings provided, preferring to trust their own gear.
However, you are still charged the same as if you used the moorings laid and maintained by the local authorities.. anchoring does a lot of damage to the sea floor and the natural flora and any fauna down there.. its not just your hook.. its also your chain dragging hither and tither uprooting or crushing life down there.
People bitch about losing reefs yet refuse to see they are the cause more often than not.. every hotel contributes, every cruise ship and.. and every sailboat in its own small way.
One hopes these charges go some way to help preserve natural environments, but sadly, its like the scam with 'Carbon Credits' and no good comes of it.
But one can dream..
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:45   #49
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

I don't mind paying $ for something but I do hate it when it adds nuisance. A great example of this in action is the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore up on Lake Superior. There is a nominal cost to tour lighthouses, overnight at docks etc. They used to have self pay envelopes and drop boxes scattered here and there that you could use which made the process at least tolerable but last time I was up there they removed most of the drop boxes and had the numbers winnowed down to a select few locations none of which I had planned to visit. That meant collecting a stack of payments, carefully documenting in my log not just where we tied up but also who visited what lighthouses, where etc so that I could match my payments with the money I had set aside. After I got home, I had to mail the payments in to get us paid up.

Hopefully, the Bahamians will come up with some means of conveniently paying them so that this does not add to the nuisance level. To be honest, I have more money than patience and that's not to say that I have any significant amount of money...
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:45   #50
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

“... In the Bahamas, the queen conch fishery represents a supplementary income-generating activity for fishers during the closed season for spiny lobster (the largest fishery in the archipelago), from 1 April to 31 July each year, particularly in the islands of Abaco, Grand Bahama and Andros. It is a largely artisanal activity, undertaken by small boats in shallow waters throughout the shallow banks ...”
“... Export data for conch are only available from 1992. From 1992 to 1998 these were provided as “univalves, fresh or chilled, nei”and in 1999 and 2000 as “univalves nei, frozen” (Fishstat + data). According to Fishstat +, exports from the Bahamas increased from 2 MT for a value of US$9 000 in 1992, to 357 MT, for a value of some US$1.84 million in 1994. They subsequently fell to 32 MT in 1999 for a value of US$180 000. In 2000 exports started to grow again reaching an estimated 84 MT for a value of US$672 000 ...”

Caribbean queen conch (Strombus gigas)

See also ➥ Conservationists Gear Up to Save Conch in Bahamas - Bahama Pundit

And ➥ Conch Smuggling in the Bahamas - Bahama Pundit

“... Under the existing (As of Monday, November 20, 2017) laws, it is legal to export 500,000 pounds of conch per annum. Stop and reflect for a minute that you are probably destroying 1 million conchs in order to provide 500,000 pounds of conch. How many conchs do you think there are in The Bahamas? Certainly not enough to sustain the present level of depletion, not to mention the millions of pounds which are consumed within The Bahamas each and every year and those illegally harvested by the poachers...”

Ban the export of conch | The Tribune
‚€˜Catastrophe‚€™ if $3.3m in conch exports banned | The Tribune

See also ➥ https://news.mongabay.com/2018/02/qu...-marine-parks/
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:20   #51
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

What are the 3 things Bahamians want to know a about boaters:
A How long are you going to be here
B How much money do you have
C When are you leaving


The Bahamians are doing their level best to drive boaters,sport fisherman and cruisers away to Cuba,Keys and the Caribbean.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:00   #52
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pirate Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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Originally Posted by willpower1 View Post
What are the 3 things Bahamians want to know a about boaters:
A How long are you going to be here
B How much money do you have
C When are you leaving


The Bahamians are doing their level best to drive boaters,sport fisherman and cruisers away to Cuba,Keys and the Caribbean.
Sounds like my Grandparents when I went on leave while I was in the Navy..
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:47   #53
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

Like others I don't mind paying for a mooring ball, but to pay to anchor is ridiculous. I have been going there off and on for 8 years and from now on it is off my list. It may be true that they want the small cruisers to just leave so the big boys can enjoy it for themselves. If this doesn't work they will probably start charging us for the wind we use sailing through the park.

There are lots of of other great places to go in the Bahamas, and there is always Cuba and the Turks & Caicos.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:52   #54
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

I dont really mind the Bahamians trtying to collect some revenue from the cruisers. I dont really expect much for the money either. What bothers me is the huge motor yachts are generally not fun to be around. And they pay say $120 a nite for a boat that is valued at over 100x my boat.
Same with US documentation, I pay 3k for my little sailboat but the 180 ft 50 million dollar yacht fee is limited to 10k.
The Bahamians are not the real enemy imo.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:13   #55
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

We are currently in Abacos. We were in the Exumas in January/February and since our last trip (2014) found that prices in the Exumas for pretty much everything have rocketed. Moorings, water, beer ($65/case) - you name it! I have no problem paying for moorings....and a reasonable anchorage fee if there are some facilities (like trash disposal). We are members of the Exumas Trust, and I have no problem supporting that.....but think it reasonable that the park should provide its supporters with a little more than "water space". Its sad, but cruisers will just stop coming here. The mega yachts will still come I guess as they seem to have no budget.

I am very pleased to report that the Abaco area is not ripping off cruisers to the extent that the Exumas is. Yes prices have increased a little from 2014, but things are still reasonable. Prices are higher than the US - but they always have been....but they are significantly less than the Exumas. Using my beer benchmark - $43/case. Water - you can still find it for free or a nominal charge if you look for it. But we are glad we bit the bullet and got a water-maker. Still some deals at marinas if you shop around.

All in all - this year, the Abaco is a better deal than the Exumas. Just a couple more observations I will pass along:
- the area in general seems to have more boats than I have seen in the recent past. Perhaps people are coming to the Bahamas instead of the hurricane damaged areas?
- tons of Canadian boats! I think Canada must have closed for the winter!
- plastic on the beaches......OMG, this has got even worse. Almost impossible to find a pristine beach, especially on the Atlantic side. Very sad situation

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Old 04-03-2018, 08:53   #56
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

I think you folks are just going to have to get used to it. Your a day sail away from the mainland and for many that falls just inside their comfort zone so I expect the numbers will just grow over time. Ultra convenient to spend a few weeks or months in those islands and then scoot back to the mainland..don't know how it's going to slow down. Let's face it...cruisers are cheap, look at all the threads on living on next to nothing..those people are way better off attracting people with deeper pockets. I'd expect to see prices rise continually in that area.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:37   #57
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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The Exuma Land and Sea Park was set up as a no take zone, to counteract the effects of overfishing and serve as a nursery to replinish local waters.
You see a lot of locals taking conch within park boundaries, especially at Conception Island. In the Berry's and many other islands, you find thousands of undersize conch shells with holes in them. In Grand ( Abacos) we saw a skiff FULL of small conchs, most undersize. You are often offered lobster out of season by locals. We have see large grouper on the docks out of season in Nassau. Cruisers are not the problem.

$20 per night to use your own anchor doesn't sound like much until you add up a lot of nights. Would be far better to add a small amount to the cruising permit and specifically allot it to the park system infrastructure but even the US cannot seem to fund the national park system adequately.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:53   #58
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I think you folks are just going to have to get used to it. Your a day sail away from the mainland and for many that falls just inside their comfort zone so I expect the numbers will just grow over time. Ultra convenient to spend a few weeks or months in those islands and then scoot back to the mainland..don't know how it's going to slow down. Let's face it...cruisers are cheap, look at all the threads on living on next to nothing..those people are way better off attracting people with deeper pockets. I'd expect to see prices rise continually in that area.
Actually I think you are wrong about it only increasing. The number of cruisers in the Bahamas has been steadily declining over the past several years. It took a big hit during the great recession and has not recovered. I think this is largely due to the baby boomers aging out. My observation on prices is that the Bahamians don't seem to understand supply and demand. Theoretically when the demand goes down prices should go down and when demand goes up prices go up. I've had a couple of Bahamians tell me that they had to raise their prices to maintain their income when the number of cruisers dropped. I understand clearly that they would never reduce prices should the number of cruisers start to increase again.

I see a number of issues with the anchoring fee system. I'm certainly not going to broadcast my credit card information over the radio. I'm also not sure I would trust this admittedly cash strapped organization to create a secure web service, not to mention there's no practical internet service in the park. If they are paying some professional service to collect and process their fees, how much is actually going to the park? The land and sea park has been driving people away for years and wondering why they're having revenue problems. When I first started going there they had a flat fee for a mooring ball for all size vessels and the mooring field were full. Then they instituted a graduated rate based on size and larger boats started anchoring out and mooring field like emerald rock were nearly empty. So they instituted landing fees for people anchored out. It seems this didn't meet expectations and they established large no anchoring zones. This did drive more people into the mooring field during bad weather, but they left as soon as the weather improved. Their facebook page says that they have successfully collected from every boat anchored in the park since March first. This cannot be inexpensive given Bahamian fuel prices and normal expenses associated with boat operations. If they now have to hire more people to collect anchoring fees is the whole scheme toxic? That is the revenue costs more to collect than it provides. If they plan on using their existing wardens then the wardens will no longer be protecting the park resources. If they don't need the wardens to protect the park's resources perhaps they should just reduce their costs by getting rid of the wardens that they don't need. I think the whole scheme is ill-conceived and will result in reduced revenue to the park in the long run.
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:01   #59
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

There might be a little more human science to it. When ever we go to Waderwick for example, the southern mooring field has one or two boats and the rest anchor next to the mooring field. I would think one marine park objective may be to minimize anchor damage so to encourage full uptake of mooring balls. An anchor fee helps achieve two things, some income and less anchor damage. Their alternative may be to ban anchoring altogether like sections of St John in USVI. The cynical among us say it is a money grab, the same is said of street parking fines. Indignant people quick to make simple assertions accuse the city council for a money grab, the council on the other hand is trying to appease those people who need to park on a city street but some one else has overstayed their parking meter by an hour, hogging the space for themselves. So fees and fines are not always about grabbing money, they are used as a means of influencing behavior in the general community, in our case the cruising community in a another country's marine park.
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:09   #60
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pirate Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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Originally Posted by Bean Counter View Post
There might be a little more human science to it. When ever we go to Waderwick for example, the southern mooring field has one or two boats and the rest anchor next to the mooring field. I would think one marine park objective may be to minimize anchor damage so to encourage full uptake of mooring balls. An anchor fee helps achieve two things, some income and less anchor damage. Their alternative may be to ban anchoring altogether like sections of St John in USVI. The cynical among us say it is a money grab, the same is said of street parking fines. Indignant people quick to make simple assertions accuse the city council for a money grab, the council on the other hand is trying to appease those people who need to park on a city street but some one else has overstayed their parking meter by an hour, hogging the space for themselves. So fees and fines are not always about grabbing money, they are used as a means of influencing behavior in the general community, in our case the cruising community in a another country's marine park.
Well put..
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