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Old 05-03-2018, 15:26   #106
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pirate Re: Discouraging move by the Exuma Park

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
funny you say that. i presume you are sarcastic.

people in the 'rich' west work whole life so can afford last couple of healthy years to live with people in these 'poor' countries and this is best of what they experienced in their lives. See all the blogs on internet.

nope, people in these poor countries have desirable rich lifestyle, and not westerners, that are pretty much slaves. media presents it all wrong.
LMAO.. doubt you'd give up all those years and what you've got, to go and live like a native in Vanuatu.. if you could do it all again.
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Old 05-03-2018, 15:29   #107
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Re: Discouraging move by the Exuma Park

just a point of information...the mooring balls in the bahamas are questionable, I have seen two mooring lines break in the abacos, and thats just me, granted the sea park does take care of there mooring lines better , but in the bahamas I would rather anchor...I know my equipment and have learned to trust it, I would not trust any mooring balls anywhere in the bahamas, just my 2 cents worth
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Old 05-03-2018, 15:35   #108
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Re: Discouraging move by the Exuma Park

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
If I’m understanding you correctly, I don’t think I disagree. But we are talking about financial/material wealth here. We’re not talking other forms of wealth, which I would agree, are fundamentally more valuable.

Many Westerners have gone cruising specifically because they recognize that the consumerist lifestyle is a trap.
yeah, not easy to break free, some decide not to. However my point is that real purpose of all these fees trying to bring free ones back into slavery.
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Old 05-03-2018, 16:01   #109
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Re: Discouraging move by the Exuma Park

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Cruisers crying poverty is really not going to garner a lot sympathy. Most of us ARE rich — especially compared to most lesser-developed countries.

Yes, there are outliers (I may be one ), but even the poorest amongst us are rich my global standards. If you honestly can’t afford the fee, then don’t go.

The world is a big place, and I’ve never paid for anchoring anywhere I’ve been. But when I go to a foreign land I follow their rules, no matter how asinine I think they are.


How DARE you bring insight into a conversation!

Affording doesn’t seem to be anyone’s problem. The problem is that they want to be able to “afford” something else, i.e. a difference in priorities. I am all for the Bahamas to take care of themselves so that they can, in turn, take care of our cruising later.

Also, as to the use of the words “fair” and “unfair”....my mom used to tell me to look at my birth certificate and tell her where it said life was fair. I never did find it!
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Old 05-03-2018, 16:38   #110
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Re: Discouraging move by the Exuma Park

Sawbonz gets my vote for best comment so far! ✅
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Old 05-03-2018, 16:38   #111
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

Have to wonder about how things like this jibe with colregs. Specifically the safe harbor provision. There is a US national park in the Dry Tortugas. You are suppose to check in and pay a minimal fee and (while not strictly enforced) are limited to a two week stay per year (hope I remembered that right).

The thing is every night about dusk or after several commercial fishing boats come in and anchor for the night without checking in. It is also common for them to offer cruisers fish/shrimp/lobster for trade or sale. I had an interesting conversation with one of the rangers right after I had been there for a few days and one of the commercial fishing boats came in well after dark, shined a spotlight directly at me, and anchored what I thought was too close to me, kept his lights on till after 11PM, and ran his wet well pump all night. Keep in mind that when I had checked in the rangers told me (and all the other cruisers) that the sea turtles were laying eggs and all boats should minimize lights on their boats.

The ranger told me the commercial fishing boats were claiming safe harbor and the park was ignoring the fact that they were not really needing safe harbor; rather just wanted an anchorage.

I do understand that the park area is rather small and most boats can easily make 20 miles in a day. But how would the park respond to a boat that claimed safe harbor. Maybe a bigger question is how is safe harbor really defined. My experience in the DT has sorta convinced me that it may be an abused term. On the other hand I do see a real need for it. Also have to say enforcement would seem to be a real problem as I have seldom seen any government officials anywhere in the Bahamas outside of checking in.
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Old 05-03-2018, 17:06   #112
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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Have to wonder about how things like this jibe with colregs. Specifically the safe harbor provision. There is a US national park in the Dry Tortugas. You are suppose to check in and pay a minimal fee and (while not strictly enforced) are limited to a two week stay per year (hope I remembered that right).

The thing is every night about dusk or after several commercial fishing boats come in and anchor for the night without checking in. It is also common for them to offer cruisers fish/shrimp/lobster for trade or sale. I had an interesting conversation with one of the rangers right after I had been there for a few days and one of the commercial fishing boats came in well after dark, shined a spotlight directly at me, and anchored what I thought was too close to me, kept his lights on till after 11PM, and ran his wet well pump all night. Keep in mind that when I had checked in the rangers told me (and all the other cruisers) that the sea turtles were laying eggs and all boats should minimize lights on their boats.

The ranger told me the commercial fishing boats were claiming safe harbor and the park was ignoring the fact that they were not really needing safe harbor; rather just wanted an anchorage.

I do understand that the park area is rather small and most boats can easily make 20 miles in a day. But how would the park respond to a boat that claimed safe harbor. Maybe a bigger question is how is safe harbor really defined. My experience in the DT has sorta convinced me that it may be an abused term. On the other hand I do see a real need for it. Also have to say enforcement would seem to be a real problem as I have seldom seen any government officials anywhere in the Bahamas outside of checking in.
FWIW, Everglades National Park, which shares the same management as DT, does not require recreational vessels that anchor in Little Shark River or along Cape Sable to "check into" the park as they do in DT. I surmise it's obvious that vessels in Little Shark/Cape Sable are just passing through as are the commercial fisherman at DT.

Like DT, it's pretty obvious that recreational vessels anchored in Exuma Land and Sea Park are there to use the park. Innocent passage is probably a very small percentage of recreational vessels in either park.

I wouldn't contest the payment in either park (hmm, I don't pay in DT anyway, I have an 'old fart' pass).
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Old 05-03-2018, 19:00   #113
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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FWIW, Everglades National Park, which shares the same management as DT, does not require recreational vessels that anchor in Little Shark River or along Cape Sable to "check into" the park as they do in DT. I surmise it's obvious that vessels in Little Shark/Cape Sable are just passing through as are the commercial fisherman at DT.

Like DT, it's pretty obvious that recreational vessels anchored in Exuma Land and Sea Park are there to use the park. Innocent passage is probably a very small percentage of recreational vessels in either park.

I wouldn't contest the payment in either park (hmm, I don't pay in DT anyway, I have an 'old fart' pass).

I tend to anchor off Middle Cape in the Everglades; the beach is one of the best I know of. Seven miles of clean white sand often with no foot prints ever. I also anchor well off shore to minimize insects.

Have to disagree about the commercial vessels just passing through DT. The one that anchored next to me did so for three days in a row. They got a visit from FWC and were told not to turn their very bright anchoring lights or run the loud pump/genset for the live well. Not to mention a full inspection of their boat which took at least 45 minutes and lots of loud swearing on the part of the fishermen; something that was drowned out by the helmsman of the FWC boat revving the engine much to the annoyance of the fishermen. The turtles were laying eggs and all boats were advised to keep lights dim and limit noise. My conversations with the rangers confirmed that the same boats would anchor around Bush Key for a week or two till they filled their holds and then head back.

I also have a Golden Age Passport which I got well before the increase in cost and change to the Senior Pass. All on the advice of the rangers at the St. Marks National Wildlife Refuge where I volunteered when I was living on dirt.

As an aside I was once asked about my knowledge of the Bahamas. I replied yea I have been all over the Bahamas. A while later I read there were something like 3,000 islands and cays in the Bahamas and realized I had been to maybe 30 of them. So for me there are still a lot of places in the Bahamas I can go and anchor for free knowing it is not likely I will see another boat.
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Old 05-03-2018, 21:40   #114
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

Remember that this is not the Bahamian government, it's just the National Trust. This is a very small group. Most of the fee will provide very little benefit to Bahamians. Most of the fee will be used trying to enforce the fee. Running fast boats with twin engines up and down the nation park with a crew of 2-3, could easily cost $400-500/day. So now we'll have the fast boats running thru the park, like the tour boats going to Pig Majors. Oh boy.

Guess the Bahamian law that all water and sea bed is public, even up to the high tide line of private property and islands, is over.

I'll will pay the fee, cause the park is the filet mignon of the Bahamas.
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:22   #115
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

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SB, you’re not suggesting people disregard the rules and not pay just b/c they can likely get away with it?
No I'm saying that just like the moorings, unless you came ashore right at the spot that the sign and deposit box are you wouldn't even know about the fee.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:09   #116
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

We picked up a mooring down by Emerald Rock at Warderick Wells one night, went ashore in the morning to try and find a pay box. No luck, turns out they expect you to go to the park headquarters to pay.

Headquarters was a half mile away as the dink flies but we were having dink engine problems at the time. As the deep draft mothership goes the distance to the headquarters was more like four miles one way.

Time and tide were against us so we left and dropped payment off at the pay box at Shroud Cay a couple days later which was fine.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:54   #117
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

This same bozo suggested something similar several years ago, then as now he wanted all to be charged $1/ft regardless where you were, in or outside of the park....even the Bahamians shot him down...The argument then was to use the moorings to save the eel grass...if the park needs $ then sell another cay! We heard of a guy who was on a mooring just outside of the park office when his mooring pulled out, fortunately he was having his morning coffee as he charged his batteries otherwise he would have been on the beach....avoid the Exuma and now the Moorings is starting a base at Palm Cay, SE NP
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Old 14-04-2018, 06:09   #118
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

The parks have a new warden, who is keen to flex his muscles. The anchorage fee came in just as he came aboard.

I witnessed them arresting a 60ish foot sportfish for fishing in the park. Confiscated fishing gear and escorted them to Black Point. Pretty serious.

The anchor fees are another attempt to make the parks more independant financially.

I encourage them to add more moorings, offer services for their fees.

they could add cell tower so that the area could have some information coverage.

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Old 14-04-2018, 08:51   #119
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

I'm so glad I was able to visit the land and sea park before many of the present fees and anchoring restrictions were put in place. There are many things I love about cruising the Bahamas, but the main reason it's my favorite cruising destination is that one can still find, uninhabited islands and anchor in a bay all to one's self.

Paying for a dodgy mooring among 30 other boats, is not why I cruise the Bahamas. However, as Vasco has said a couple times, one can easily sail right on past the park, which has been my choice the last two times through the Exumas.

One answerer said this is one more action against the freedom of the seas. That sentiment is more the issue I see. When I first started cruising the Bahamas, a Bahamas cruising permit was $20, I could store my boat for under $100/month and get liability insurance for $250/year. When returning to the states, all I did was call customs, not pre-regsisterd forms and fees required. Florida didn't have the anti-anchoring laws it does now, the Abacos had far more uninhabited bays and islands.

Times change. I don't blame the land and sea park for their policies, just as I don't blame marinas or insurance companies for charging more. The cumulative affects however of all these increased costs and headaches along with the decreased opportunities, certainly have changed my perspective on cruising.
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Old 14-04-2018, 15:23   #120
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Re: New daily anchoring fees for Exuma Land and Sea Park

Two things come to mind.

1. Unintended consequences. They can't find people willing to pay it. Like when the 150/300 fee was instigated without any thought toward what it would do to the Bimini weekenders, thus essentially killing Bimini.

2. Slippery slope. They find enough people willing to pay it. And, the people running Georgetown, Black Point, Staniel Cay, Marsh Harbor, say, "Hey, why don't we do that, too?"

I think we're just going to pass on by, and keep good evidence in our logbook, that we did that.
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