Musk says Starlink will work on boats

[Lepke]

I have Starlink on a 83' power boat. It works within the cell. Big waves, especially rolling throw it off for a few minutes, as does changing course.

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I have Starlink on a 83' power boat. It works within the cell. Big waves, especially rolling throw it off for a few minutes, as does changing course.

Wow, Lepke. I would think an 83' ex-CG power boat would be a pretty stable platform. We don't roll much, but cats twitch going over waves & swells. And for us little guys bobbing on the open ocean, our autopilot is constantly adjusting our course. And you say that can interrupt the tracking for MINUTES?

These antennas are supposed to have compass & gyro chip sensors, but there's always been the question of how fast they work, or how fast the SW driving the beams can use that sensor data to adjust for the motions of a boat (or RV going down the road). Hopefully this (along with power usage) will improve with the next generation dishes.

Here in the Philippines, we pay about $1/day for (usually) adequate LTE data over the cell system that works most places. We want something that works in the middle of the ocean, when we're out of cell range, & when we cross borders (assuming that ever happens again). But to pay an additional $3/day to fill in the gaps in our current service (with, admittedly, better performance but MUCH higher power usage) is a questionable expense for those of us living on savings.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Wow, Lepke. I would think an 83' ex-CG power boat would be a pretty stable platform. We don't roll much, but cats twitch going over waves & swells. And for us little guys bobbing on the open ocean, our autopilot is constantly adjusting our course. And you say that can interrupt the tracking for MINUTES?

These antennas are supposed to have compass & gyro chip sensors, but there's always been the question of how fast they work, or how fast the SW driving the beams can use that sensor data to adjust for the motions of a boat (or RV going down the road). Hopefully this (along with power usage) will improve with the next generation dishes.

Here in the Philippines, we pay about $1/day for (usually) adequate LTE data over the cell system that works most places. We want something that works in the middle of the ocean, when we're out of cell range, & when we cross borders (assuming that ever happens again). But to pay an additional $3/day to fill in the gaps in our current service (with, admittedly, better performance but MUCH higher power usage) is a questionable expense for those of us living on savings.

It was not unusual with Satcoms A, B,and C to get shading on Superyachts , and often worse in SE Alaska or Norway when in the fijords. So this sounds fine when you dont have cell coverage.

Like you, I am happy enough with the cell coverage in the Philiippnes, to be in no rush to get Starlink, but once small boat installations report back good connections in heavy weather,
I'm all in

[Elcid]

This will be a game changer. And not only for sailing, but so much more. If I had an apartment in a city as an investment I would sell it off right now. I don't think people are yet realising the exodus from cities which this technology will facilitate. Companies are more easily allowing remote work due to COVID.
This is akin to the PC/Internet/iPhone revolutions.
Too bad SpaceX is a private company

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Elcid

…
Too bad SpaceX is a private company

Do you really think a government department would have even conceived of Starlink, let alone have been able to develop it from nothing to a working system in not much more than a single election cycle? Sadly, DARPA is no longer what it once was, at least that I know of.

Thank goodness that SpaceX is a private company and led by a visionary thinker and relatively capable person. I really do think that no Musk would equal no Starlink.

Had you noticed that until Starlink was announced, there had been virtually no progress in satellite broadband at retail prices most could afford since the original Iridium constellation was put in place? Now, there are at least two fast followers and within five years we will have a plethora of choices (I hope!).

[h20man]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Wow, Lepke. I would think an 83' ex-CG power boat would be a pretty stable platform. We don't roll much, but cats twitch going over waves & swells. And for us little guys bobbing on the open ocean, our autopilot is constantly adjusting our course. And you say that can interrupt the tracking for MINUTES?

These antennas are supposed to have compass & gyro chip sensors, but there's always been the question of how fast they work, or how fast the SW driving the beams can use that sensor data to adjust for the motions of a boat (or RV going down the road). Hopefully this (along with power usage) will improve with the next generation dishes.

Here in the Philippines, we pay about $1/day for (usually) adequate LTE data over the cell system that works most places. We want something that works in the middle of the ocean, when we're out of cell range, & when we cross borders (assuming that ever happens again). But to pay an additional $3/day to fill in the gaps in our current service (with, admittedly, better performance but MUCH higher power usage) is a questionable expense for those of us living on savings.

Remember that the software is designed for being on LAND.. NOT MOVING.. So it is amazing that it is even working in the movement.


SpaceX's FCC documentation claims that the same electronics shall be used on 'movable' platforms.



I suspect that the software may be changed on the ground station and the Sat to take into account movement..

[h20man]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Do you really think a government department would have even conceived of Starlink, let alone have been able to develop it from nothing to a working system in not much more than a single election cycle? Sadly, DARPA is no longer what it once was, at least that I know of.

Thank goodness that SpaceX is a private company and led by a visionary thinker and relatively capable person. I really do think that no Musk would equal no Starlink.

Had you noticed that until Starlink was announced, there had been virtually no progress in satellite broadband at retail prices most could afford since the original Iridium constellation was put in place? Now, there are at least two fast followers and within five years we will have a plethora of choices (I hope!).

I suspect that @Elcid saying "too bad SpaceX is a private company" implies he would like to be a part owner (ie shareholder) of SpaceX. I suspect that many people's retirement/insurance companies are indirect shareholders in SpaceX , as many retirement funds and insurance companies allocate some of their assets to VC's who do invest in companies like SpaceX.


One public company that has invested in SpaceX is Alphabet ( owner of google) Another is Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust (LSE: SMT)



I am NOT SUGGESTING ANY INVESTMENT.. and you should do your own research... But SpaceX is definitely going to go to the moon/mars... or be as valuable as a reentry booster giving a big show as it burns up to the ground... I guarantee it shall be one of those two outcomes.

[bcboomer]

I don't care if it doesn't work well when I'm sailing.

I'll be happy just to be able to hook up to wifi for an hour or 2 when anchored.

[goboatingnow]

I wonder will it go the same way as sat phones , ie the market moved to GSM quicker then expected , spaceX is relying on the idea that reasonably populated areas of the world will have poor terrestrial internet access. That assumption may not remain valid.

It would not justify itself for sea based traffic alone

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... SpaceX is relying on the idea that reasonably populated areas of the world will have poor terrestrial internet access. That assumption may not remain valid.

It would not justify itself for sea based traffic alone

I don't know how many subscribers they need in each cell to make the system profitable. But once they get the birds up, there's essentially no cost to use them.

Each bird has 4 antennas, & each of those antennas can watch multiple cells (this number hasn't been revealed, but I think it's about 10/antenna, so 40-50/bird?). With cells 40-ish miles across, that's 1,250 sq-mi/cell, or 50K-sq-mi/bird. Which means that only 4,000 birds would be needed to cover the entire 200M-sq-mi of the planet.

I think they're planning NOT to cover developed areas very well, as those places are likely to have good terrestrial internet already. Also, the military doesn't want them putting multiple beams on a cell (in the US, anyway), so there's a limit on how many subscribers in a single cell can be using the service before bandwidth suffers. At some point, it becomes a shared resource.

But over the oceans, the birds will be loafing with little to do, so covering a few boats should be easy. Yes, we certainly won't be paying enough into the system to keep it alive just ourselves, but if the birds are overhead, we're just gravy to Starlink, service they can provide when the birds aren't doing anything else. And probably with excellent throughput, as few others will be using that satellite.

Some of the very lowest orbits will actually get enough air-drag that those birds will need to use some of that time over the oceans to boost their orbits (which uses most of their energy budget) but those are some of the last orbits to be filled.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I wonder will it go the same way as sat phones , ie the market moved to GSM quicker then expected , spaceX is relying on the idea that reasonably populated areas of the world will have poor terrestrial internet access. That assumption may not remain valid.
...

No Starlink, or it's competitors if they actually manage to put up a network, which I hope they do, will not be made obsolete by any technology that is out there at the moment.

The US tax payer has paid hundreds of millions of dollars to expand fast Internet into rural areas, and for the most part, it has been a waste of money. My service provider increased speeds, not to us, but to a pasture full of cattle and this is not an isolated incident. People in rural areas are not getting fast Internet because of the cost to establish and maintain the networks in areas with low population. Heck, we are NOT in a low population area, but we cannot get upgraded Internet and have no cable, the later is not a loss except for faster Internet speeds.

I don't see 5G being pushed out into rural areas due to the same cost issues. There are areas in my county that do not have cell service or reliable service and 5G is not going to solve the problem.

If Work From Home is now going to be a new normal due to the pandemic, and I hope it is, the need for rural areas to have fast and reliable Internet access is going to increase. Given that rural areas are dying off, I hope Work From Home is a new normal.

What Musk has accomplished so far is a game changer in many ways. I wish I could buy stock in Starlink.

Later,
Dan

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

But over the oceans, the birds will be loafing with little to do, so covering a few boats should be easy. Yes, we certainly won't be paying enough into the system to keep it alive just ourselves, but if the birds are overhead, we're just gravy to Starlink, service they can provide when the birds aren't doing anything else. And probably with excellent throughput, as few others will be using that satellite.

The birds over the ocean will be busy, giving a shorter lazer line between London/Europe and North American stock markets, than the sub-sea cables, to cut the latency, so that the large players, can front run us more easily. It's almost all about the day traders, and scalping more money off of them.

Best wishes all.

[more]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

Each bird has 4 antennas, & each of those antennas can watch multiple cells (this number hasn't been revealed, but I think it's about 10/antenna, so 40-50/bird?). With cells 40-ish miles across, that's 1,250 sq-mi/cell, or 50K-sq-mi/bird. Which means that only 4,000 birds would be needed to cover the entire 200M-sq-mi of the planet.

20Gbit/s per satellite implies that each satellite can handle 200 simultaneous streams at 100Mbit/s, 200x (50)100 = 10000-20000 user per satelit over USA,land over sea 100x1000 maybe more

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Do you really think a government department would have even conceived of Starlink, let alone have been able to develop it from nothing to a working system in not much more than a single election cycle? Sadly, DARPA is no longer what it once was, at least that I know of.

Thank goodness that SpaceX is a private company and led by a visionary thinker and relatively capable person. I really do think that no Musk would equal no Starlink.

Had you noticed that until Starlink was announced, there had been virtually no progress in satellite broadband at retail prices most could afford since the original Iridium constellation was put in place? Now, there are at least two fast followers and within five years we will have a plethora of choices (I hope!).

I think he meant "too bad I can't buy stock"...

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by h20man

I suspect that @Elcid saying "too bad SpaceX is a private company" implies he would like to be a part owner (ie shareholder) of SpaceX. I suspect that many people's retirement/insurance companies are indirect shareholders in SpaceX , as many retirement funds and insurance companies allocate some of their assets to VC's who do invest in companies like SpaceX.


One public company that has invested in SpaceX is Alphabet ( owner of google) Another is Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust (LSE: SMT)



I am NOT SUGGESTING ANY INVESTMENT.. and you should do your own research... But SpaceX is definitely going to go to the moon/mars... or be as valuable as a reentry booster giving a big show as it burns up to the ground... I guarantee it shall be one of those two outcomes.

I saw today that DoD has a line item in next year's budget to explore using the SpaceX Starship as a 1 hour delivery service for 100 tons to anywhere on earth. That in and of itself could be a game changer, aside from everything else.