Moody 49 lost on bar at Bahia del Sol, El Salvador

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

... Imho best to look at anything & everything.

Indeed.
What's worse: No knowledge, or [possibly] fallible local knowledge?
What are cruising guides, coast pilots, CF reports, and the like - except local knowledge [often 2ND/3RD hand], written down?

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

What puzzles me is that experienced cruisers, who got to BDS so far, would be relying on boats in front of them in any situation. To NEVER do it was one of the first thing we were taught in ASA 101 class. The instructor (also the owner of that sailing club) drilled it into us giving an actual example from his club fleet where a member sailing a 30 footer drawing 6' followed a 50 footer for a shortcut thinking he must draw at least 6' also. When in fact he had a swing keel drawing 3 or 4' with the keel up. With predictable results for a 30 footer.

Once again, in this case there is no choice but to take direction from a pilot. In the turgid water the channel is impossible to see--all there is to look at is breaking waves, breaking all the way across. No one shows up and follows a random panga--that would be madness. And to suggest that someone in a dinghy could scope the way and take soundings is risible to anyone who has seen this bar. Most of the time, it is breaking water and would swamp a dinghy before it could take sounding.

Even with a carefully coordinated pilotage, at the proper stage of the tide (an ebb stacks the waves up higher), with normal conditions, it's a toss of the dice whether the boat will have speed enough to get into position in time, and be able to maintain control for the few moments it takes to get into quiet water. Many boats, especially fin-keelers with spade rudders, lost control and broached; a small catamanan got broken right over from the side and took a lot of water through portholes he'd been warned to close but hadn't; one big schooner, distrusting the pilot, had turned wrong, grounded hard, and damaged the rudder.

Even with all the dangers and cautions, more boats than not made it in without mishap (us included, with our 8hp outboard wide open and every stitch of canvas up), and found it a very pleasant, if buggy and muggy, place. It's a secure and affordable place to leave a boat on a mooring during the off-season; there's a social cruising community there (less and less so as you follow the coast toward Panama), and it's got the cheapest decent food on that whole Pacific coast.

[Kettlewell]

And to suggest that someone in a dinghy could scope the way and take soundings is risible to anyone who has seen this bar. Most of the time, it is breaking water and would swamp a dinghy before it could take sounding.

This statement is a red flag--don't go into places with breaking bars if you can't scout it out in your dinghy.

[Kettlewell]

What are cruising guides, coast pilots, CF reports, and the like - except local knowledge [often 2ND/3RD hand], written down?

No, cruising guides and coast pilots are (hopefully) written by professionals who do research on the area in question, ask questions, confirm facts, take measurements, and have editors who back them up on all that. I spent many years researching, writing and editing cruising guides to places, and one thing we never did was provide information that could lead boaters into danger, no matter how compelling the destination. I don't know how many times I have chatted with fellow boaters who have provided me with incorrect "local knowledge" based on their one encounter with a place, or hearsay from some other boaters they chatted with around the bar.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Benz

And to suggest that someone in a dinghy could scope the way and take soundings is risible to anyone who has seen this bar. Most of the time, it is breaking water and would swamp a dinghy before it could take sounding.

I'd expect you'd need a dinghy with electronics to do it. No way could you crawl across the bar taking soundings with a lead line or a handheld depth sounder. But for those with fancier dinghies with electronics (and often a big outboard) it should be possible to cross the bar at speed and gather some data. Going in shouldn't be a problem in a fast enough dinghy, getting back out without swamping the dinghy from taking a breaker over the bow would be my biggest concern.

[argonauta1]

So sorry to hear of the loss of the Moody. Another safer option is one we visited among several other cruisers. At the time, 2008, we were north bound from Costa Rica and stopped in Puesta Del Sol Marina, Nicaragua. Not much of a bar issue and channel and entrance were well marked. No panga guidance necessary. Nice facility. We left our yacht there for a couple of months awaiting a yacht carrier pickup back down in Costa Rica. No customs hassles like in Costa Rica. We'd do it again. So if sailing downbound it would be the next haven after San Salvador maybe one extra night underway. The facility is owned by a wealthy Nicaraguan thermal engineer.(volcanic power generation). The facility caters to deep sea fishing guests from all over the world. Nice hotel and dining room there but otherwise in the boonies.

[Kit_L]

re. the https://www.gofundme.com/f/rum-truff...d-then-striped

I made a modest donation, and see that he's about halfway towards his goal.

[philiosophy]

I was there 2013. Here's the thing. When I arrived in Bahia De Caracas Ecuador and later in Panama...I heard many horror stories about the bars in El Salvador. Yes that'd right only after. Non of the cruising guides nada.
"
I did not mean to disparage the chap who came out, but he's been given an impossible job unless he refuses to do it when tide and swell and breeze are imperfect. Damned hard job.
This guy doesn't get paid unless the yacht comes in. Bill doesn't get mooring fees. None of the businesses get paid unless the yacht comes in. In today's world of woke nonsense...only talking about the good, never mentioning the negative....This kind of thing can happen. I am a retired Tug Master. Pilot Boat is sure as hell the wrong name for the Panga driver with local knowledge that has no legal responsibility and certainly no real knowledge of the sea keeping ability of a sailing yacht. We..Yes me and all the you's whom have crossed this bar, have known the stories should have stood up and made enough fuss to be heard so these people would have at least had that to help them decide.
Just that simple...I am hanging my head as should you all

[Benz]

Originally Posted by philiosophy

I was there 2013. Here's the thing. When I arrived in Bahia De Caracas Ecuador and later in Panama...I heard many horror stories about the bars in El Salvador. Yes that'd right only after. Non of the cruising guides nada.
"
I did not mean to disparage the chap who came out, but he's been given an impossible job unless he refuses to do it when tide and swell and breeze are imperfect. Damned hard job.
This guy doesn't get paid unless the yacht comes in. Bill doesn't get mooring fees. None of the businesses get paid unless the yacht comes in. In today's world of woke nonsense...only talking about the good, never mentioning the negative....This kind of thing can happen. I am a retired Tug Master. Pilot Boat is sure as hell the wrong name for the Panga driver with local knowledge that has no legal responsibility and certainly no real knowledge of the sea keeping ability of a sailing yacht. We..Yes me and all the you's whom have crossed this bar, have known the stories should have stood up and made enough fuss to be heard so these people would have at least had that to help them decide.
Just that simple...I am hanging my head as should you all

Well, I DID write a couple articles in Cruising World magazine about BDS. Not sure what more I could have done to help inform other cruisers. This is the first thread on this forum I remember about it, and I'm talking about it again. It's not like you can go around buttonholing stragers like the Ancient Mariner, compelled to tell them about BDS to make them sadder and wiser.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Kit_L

re. the https://www.gofundme.com/f/rum-truff...d-then-striped

I made a modest donation, and see that he's about halfway towards his goal.

I don't know Mark - only saw him as he swung through the anchorage and then chatted for an hour via WhatsApp. My sense is he really appreciates the show of support from the cruiser community. Sure, money is always great, but just knowing that folks are lending a hand likely means the world to him. Even just a few bucks to buy him a pint.....

I was the person who posted on NoForeignLand a caution about the bar. One of the cool things about NFL is they have an icon for cautions (red circle with ! exclamation mark). Guidance is that it be factual and any commentary be done in a review. Hence my caution reads:

Bahia del Sol Bar Crossing

Breaking waves across entrance. Reported channel of up to 12-feet deep, though moves constantly. Local knowledge required. Contact Bahia del Sol Marina to hire a local panga driver as pilot. NOTE - slower displacement boats that cannot match speed of breakers are at greater risk of broaching.

I also posted a review as follows based on listening to a comprehensive debrief of the two boats that entered ahead of Rum Truffle. Would have been better if one of them had given a review so I waited a bit, but decided to input ASAP into NFL as a caution to those who follow:

Moody 49 sailboat lost on this bar entrance March 7 2024 in mild conditions due to bar-pilot error. Another boat broached (spreaders in water) and grounded hard before being lifted by next wave set. Broach and temporary grounding are not uncommon when crossing this bar in a displacement speed boat that cannot match speed of waves.

We were about 3-4 weeks behind Rum Truffle and had planned to store our boat with Bill & Jean at BDS. Because of the risk of crossing the bar, we altered plans and are now storing our boat at the boatyard in Chiapas for the summer. Our 36-foot boat will cost $270/mo (plus tax) to store. Travel lift is $425 plus tax and power washing. 2400 nms and 5-months thus far. For those who think they can't afford diesel for a powerboat, we burn just over 1 gph and have averaged 6-1/3rd kts. 500 gals diesel thus far.

We are sorry we will miss BDS. It sounds like a really cool place......once you get there.

We keep track of our journey on Instagram (MVWeebles) if anyone is interested.

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by Benz

It's not like you can go around buttonholing stragers like the Ancient Mariner, compelled to tell them about BDS to make them sadder and wiser.

good one!

[dannc]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't know Mark - only saw him as he swung through the anchorage and then chatted for an hour via WhatsApp. My sense is he really appreciates the show of support from the cruiser community. Sure, money is always great, but just knowing that folks are lending a hand likely means the world to him. Even just a few bucks to buy him a pint.....
....

I have helped people clean up after their homes, or their deceased relative's home, where destroyed by hurricane flooding and tornadoes.

Having people, especially total strangers, just show up to help REALLY improves the survivors mental state. They are not alone. Someone cares. There is away forward. Things are progressing. There is a future.

The survivor(s) still have a long difficult path but people helping makes a big difference.

[s/v Jedi]

Well seeing that everyone (except me) uses Navionics and reports every possible anchorage, every bar and restaurant on the linked ActiveCaptain, it is surprising that nobody who broached on the bar posted a notice.

It more than surprising, something is going on I think. Check out attachment

[JPA Cate]

Interesting, that picture of the bar looks a lot deeper and more straightforward than the ones pictured above from different years by Google.

And of course, with it changing frequently, no cruising guide can give an accurate picture: it will be out of date by the time it's printed.

I don't know what Jedi thinks is going on, but I am pretty sure the marina would like the custom, and also pretty sure that the marina on it's own cannot do anything to improve the bar.

Guys, I've only our experience here in Australia, of bars, for the last roughly 30 yrs to base it on, but some bars change more rapidly than others, and all are sometimes impassable. [Had to bypass Laurieton one time and head on south to Broughton Is.] One has a pumping station that pumps sand from the south to the north. Bars do fill in. Some bars here that used to be open no longer are, due to natural geological factors. All it takes is one big rain when "too much" particulate matter comes down the river, and falls out to block and fill in the entry channel. These rivers often have "training walls" to direct the flow in a way that is supposed to keep the channel clean and diverts the sand off to the side in "beaches". In Australia, shallow inland waterways may be dredged to keep them open for keel boat traffic. However, it IS costly. But the point is that poorer nations don't spend their hard earned taxes on keeping river bars open or even restoring aids to navigation following major weather event; they can barely focus on medical care, disaster relief, and education of the populace. Tourism dollars are unrealiable sources, don't flow steadily enough, or in great enough quantity..

At any rate, I'm glad <mvweebles> posted the info on NoForeignLand. Nicely stated.

Ann

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well seeing that everyone (except me) uses Navionics and reports every possible anchorage, every bar and restaurant on the linked ActiveCaptain, it is surprising that nobody who broached on the bar posted a notice.

It more than surprising, something is going on I think. Check out attachment

In Post #8, I attached three pictures from Google Earth of the BSD bar from successive years (mid 2010's I think). The bar moves a LOT over the course of time. I looked at about 30-years of Google Earth time lapse - the vast majority of the pictures show breaking waves across the inlet. My impression is the picture in Jedi's post is an outlier. But folks can makeup their own mind. Honestly, the biggest danger is for deeper-draft displacement boats that cannot keep-up with the swells.

I tried to update ActiveCaptain with an informational warning. Not sure how responsive AC is. Hopefully within a day or two it will be live.