Lagoon 380 cat vs Amel Super Maramu for tradewinds RTW

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by double u

on each of our rtw we stayed at Chagos (a highlight of a rtw everybody will agree): once for 6 weeks & twice for 3 months. add to this the time to get there (from Darwin), could be another 3-4 weeks, then add the time to get to Aden (possible then) - another 3+ weeks, they mightn't have any toilet paper (or Pampers in the case of our 2nd trw) there, add another 4 weeks plus to get to Suez & then add 25% extra as safety margin. this amounts to a serious amount of foodstuff & toiletpaper for 2 persons (not to speak of the nappies for the baby...)...
on the first rtw we managed on the 34' Wharram - but I still marvel that it survived the crass overloading...
(& it's not that we were extravagant, on the contrary!!!)

Bludi Pampers..???..
What's wrong with old fashioned nappies.. trail on a line astern then rinse.. no pollution dumped at sea or on islands not designed to cope with todays trash.. as for toilet paper.. from the amount folks seem to use in marina's clogging pans regularly I'd suggest the Med method.. a shower hose tap rinse bidet style.. you know.. those things in hotels and houses many seem to think are for washing ones feet..

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I'd suggest the Med method.. a shower hose tap rinse bidet style.. you know.. those things in hotels and houses many seem to think are for washing ones feet..

I once stayed in a hotel with a wooden foot-washing bowl.
I'm currently re-thinking ALL of my assumptions.

[double u]

guys, I washed a trillion nappies with my two hands...
BUT:
1. you gotta rinse them in freshwater otherwise you'll be paying DEARLY when the little feller gets a nappie-rash (sleep-deprivation is banned by internat. law as torture, this is the only legally allowed case...)
2. on passage? are you serious? if you want to wash nappies on passage - be my guest!
as a Kraut-fellow-cruiser said, when we met in Uturoa/Raiatea (where our lad "hit the ground"), both loaded down with packs of Pampers, heading for our boats: "With pampers you buy yourself quality of life!"

[double u]

& yeah, I'm NOT talking "assumptions"...
we bred him on the boatr, from -9months to 9 years of age, the full program, nappies/Pampers, schooling, the works! "singlehanding is for whimps!" to quote another fellow child-on-board-raising cruiser.

[boatman61]

[double u]

"Born To Be Wild" - certainly applied to the little feller, back in 90!!!
& as to his christian name: the choice was between "rollo" (cause the anchorage in Los Christianos where he was conceived was so rolly) - we decided against it: too "kraut", so "christian", the alternative was used (& of course "Moana" as middle name, like all boatkids born in FP) it was
we were tough then (if I say so myself), particularly the lady...!)
& yes, he was a screamer!

[Be Free Sailor]

Great question, and I have been there myself - Amel SM or Lagoon 380...?!

Yes, I have owned both an Amel SM2000, and a Lagoon 410s2 owner version!

We use our boat for family sailing, long trips in N-Europe, usually we sail with 2-3 kids ages 10-14.

Next plan is a big trip, similar to what you plan, and I know which boat I prefer, for TRADEWIND family trip RTW.

WE WILL TAKE THE CAT

For more detailed reply, please read on;

Our SM2000 did actually smell of "oldness", being from 2003, but after replacing all upholstery including new foam, we had a nice smell. Only the central bilge did smell occasionally, the odor was coming into the galley area. A clean of the bilges on regular basis did help a lot.
All the clothes lockers, and cupboards, has some fabric glued to the hull insides. This was not easy to clean, and we did not like it, I prefer Gelcoat surface for keeping clean.

Sailing the SM2000 definitely makes you feel confident, such an easy sail plan handling from the cockpit, and fast speeds. SM2000 WILL BE ROLLING like a MONO. Only after trying a Cat, you will know how cool that is. I wish there was an AMEL CATAMARAN, maybe it would be the perfect boat!

The Lagoon we purchased after selling the SM2000, we needed something more "family" friendly, and I always wanted a Lagoon 380, yes it is more "plastic", but we decided it is fine. We wanted more living space inside, keeping kids and adults dry and warm while at sea.

Buying the Lagoon 410s2 was an amazing change, and we never looked back. Yes the SM2000 is a very beautiful boat, and definitely more "safe" offshore, and built like a tank. And the Lagoon sometimes felt like was about to break apart due to noise, waves slapping under the nacelle, but it can "fly", 10-12 knots with winds on the side blowing 25-30 knots.
Sail handling of the Lagoon is not so easy, especially if comparing to the SM2000 which is so easy to change area due to electric controls and furling systems.

Now what to choose, for a TRADEWIND trip RTW.

Well, I am convinced, we have sold the 410 and will now purchase a more recent catamaran 2011 or newer (actively searching!), and preferably a bit smaller than the 410. I feel the 380 is a nice package, but still the handling of sails I do not like much. Especially furling the headsail, it takes two people if on Starboard tack is not so easy. I need to handle the furl rope on SB side of the boat, and at the same time keep taught on the PS sheet for the headsail.
Maybe we can change the sheets location.

Have fun looking!

Niels

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Be Free Sailor

Well, I am convinced, we have sold the 410 and will now purchase a more recent catamaran 2011 or newer (actively searching!), and preferably a bit smaller than the 410. I feel the 380 is a nice package, but still the handling of sails I do not like much. Especially furling the headsail, it takes two people if on Starboard tack is not so easy. I need to handle the furl rope on SB side of the boat, and at the same time keep taught on the PS sheet for the headsail.
Maybe we can change the sheets location.

Have fun looking!

Niels

Great post, Niels. Thanks for all the first-hand information! Our next boat search will also include the ubiquitous Lagoon 380 which my Admiral loves after only sundowners aboard but no real sailing. My gut feeling is that the 380 is just a tad small, but I have an open mind and will charter one soon. My real surprise is that the TINY galley would be acceptable to the one who will be preparing a lot of meals for a small family.

Question: What influenced your preference for a smaller cat than the 410 in your new search? (I was leaning toward at least the 410/420)
Thanks in advance!

[LotNick]

Well, thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts on the subject. Some great insight in this thread, and we've learnt a lot just reading through these posts. Today we have closed the deal and are now proud owners of a 2001 Leopard 45, and the route has been modified to include mainly south-east Asia departing Caribbean ending the trip 3 years later in Australia; we will let you know how our choices worked out. Life has it's funny ways...

[nelson_dk]

@LotNick;
This is an amazing boat you have purchased! Congratulations!!!!!!

@cyan;
I wanted a more recent cat, preferably newer than 2011, and of the "old designs", only the Lagoon 380 is still in production...and it is a well proven offshore capable design, high bridgedeck clearance, reasonable fast (I was impressed during the sea trials).

I almost purchased a Leopard 39 (2012) a couple of months back, but pulled out last minute, primarily due to another cat that appeared on the market, one that seemed more "out of the box" perfect for our offshore plans..."to be continued"....



Best regards,
Be Free Sailor / Niels

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by billknny

...For anything you can do with one engine on the catamaran, I can do with my sails.

6 knots in a flat calm.

[MikeFergie]

Interesting Niels I was going to say try a Leopard. On my 40 you only need to leave the helm to raise and drop the main otherwise all the sails can be controlled without leaving the helm seat. This is how I like it as short hand sailing in marginal seas it’s the safest and easiest .

I would not like to be doing a crossing heeled over for days on end. It fine to be racing a few days with buddies but not full time cruising with a family on board.

It’s about “quality of life” and that guys is what you get with a cat hands down.

[biohead]

Originally Posted by cyan

The Amel is certainly mighty, but not invincible.

There was one ("Crusader"?) that sank at a mooring when the bowthruster leaked, flooding the forward compartment. When the occupants unknowingly opened the watertight door, it sank.
There was another dismasted in a knock-down in Indonesia.

My point is, watertight living compartments are not very watertight when the interior doors are open.

When a knockdown occurs, there are some surprises and things to learn. (To me, anyway, in a race when watching a 36' knocked next to us down after rounding a mark)

1. The weight of the water in the sails can stick the mast to the water like glue. The "righting moment" goes missing entirely, while the fulcrum (the hull) can go lower by the minute.
2. High gunwales are not that high when horizontal
3. Bilge pumps don't do much up in the air, when the water is on the cabin's interior side, filling cabinets that are normally at eye level.
4. Companionways are (almost) always open under way.
5. Odd "rolly" conditions sometimes mean the current and the wind are fighting each other, and the keel is trying to tell you something.
6. When close-hauled, you might not feel dangerously overpowered until you round a mark and discover your jib sheet has an Oscar. (note- "Oscar" is the grinder who infamously creates winch overrides on our boat)

If you watch the sv Delos Indian Ocean video, you see them bury a gunwale while flirting with 45 degrees on a port tack with the starboard-offset companionway open, flying only a storm jib. I winced. They seem normally conservative, but to make full use of the Amel's safety features, I think you close all hatches and doors in crazy weather, no?

I know this is all dated, but I think Crusader did not sink, she is still among the living. I read somewhere...perhaps on the Amel forum about the incident and it was a series of goof ups. Yes Delos crew makes me cringe sometimes. I eventually did by an Amel and had a rogue wave sneek up behind us while entering Little Harbor Inlet in Abaco. The wave rolled the boat 90 degrees and swamped the cockpit. Companionway shut ...inside dry as a bone. Oh and the giant scuppers drained the cockpit before we fully digested the incident. I would go with Amel all the way. It will be slower but it really is bullet proof.