I Told Everyone to Avoid Mexico. Here we go...

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Is the Mexican Government not going to release the innocent cruisers once it gets through their Government paperwork system...absolutely.

Strike the word "not" and sentance me to an editing class.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

We are in step 3, waiting for the Mexican Officialdom.

Warning: Thread Drift

Okay. While we wait, lets have a look at "Old Mexico".

I like that Vodka advert - and understand why it was never intended for the US market!

As demographics in southwest USA change, expect citizen-voters to reflect that change. If a third of the people in an area speak Mexican-Spanish now then imagine what they might vote for when the percentage changes to more than 50. Hey, it's the US way, right? Majority of the voters get (much of) what they want?

{Edit: The map on left is circa 1821.}

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Strike the word "not" and sentance me to an editing class.

My thoughts also. It would be good to know if any boats have been impounded since the first "go round".

This sounds an awful lot like a bureaucrat thought up a way to impress his boss and it turned out that he didn't know enough about what he was trying to do to be competent. Now the system doesn't know exactly how to get out of it without admitting that their system can be that wrong. Bureaucrats everywhere protect their system and their underlings, but they will usually stop obvious screw-ups from continuing once brought to their attention.

So I would like a clear answer as to the time of the last impoundment.

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Does it suck...absolutely
Is it a black eye for Mexico...definitely
Is the Mexican Government not going to release the innocent cruisers once it gets through their Government paperwork system...absolutely

They don't want your boat...they just screwed up.
It's as simple as that. But to say that some won't get their boats released is as crazy as thinking the Government machine in Mexico is any faster or smarter than that in the US that decided to let assault rifles walk into Mexico to track the guns.

That's fair.

It has to be frustrating if your boat is caught up in this mess and you still did everything right, which seems to be the situation in at least a couple of the cases.

Still, if the letter writing and alerting the press had not happened, this would not have been a black eye for Mexico. A public relations black eye is only effective if the public actually knows about it.

If the Mexican government want's the world to believe that they are a nation of laws, then they will fix this and quickly. If there is retribution from local authorities because of the letter writing (as Zeehag fears), then that would confirm all of the worst stereotypes that many outsiders have.

[ReMetau]

Bureaucracy is bureaucracy no matter where the border is.

How many lost their homes in the USA due to bank screw ups and bad US policy?

[dpons]

Originally Posted by Seafrontiersman

Asians and Europeans learn English readily when they come to the US. Latins in general and Mexicans especially get an attitude and refuse to learn the lingo. If they do they will not willingly speak it. No education system will change their attitudes toward the US or their hatred of gringos and it certainly won't stop the RECONQUISTA

That is such a prejudiced attitude! You are clearly clueless on the topic and have not been in contact with immigrants from Mexico. BTW, I don't know what the hell are "Latins".

The main difference with Europeans is that many Mexicans are come from poor areas and are less exposed to formal education.

You better get comfortable with "Latins" and other impures, in 100 years most Americans will be from Mexican and black heritage, your granddaughters will marry them and have kids named Paco and Jesus

[Sailing Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I'm told the difference between the US and Canada with regards to foreign languages and cultures is that the US is a "melting pot" (assimilation) whereas in Canada, the approach is multiculturalism. This was seeded in Canada right from the get-go, when Canada was formed from two distinct groups - English and French.

This isn't to say that people don't need to to learn English or French, rather it's a recognition that it isn't necessary to force people to shed their original heritage to be Canadians. With immigration, you will always have the old folks clinging to everything old, but you absolutely cannot stop the young'uns from embracing and mastering the language and culture of the new home country. ESL (English as a second language) classes are always packed. This seems to work better in the long run, and this approach in Canada and elsewhere has resulted in a very relaxed and easy acceptance of other cultures into the Canadian "mosaic" (I hate that word tho), and diversity without resentment.

Education... tough issue. Maybe if people hated on teachers less... but they always seem to be held up as poster children for government ineptitude.

OMG........and Toronto has never been called a melting pot right? Time to step off the horse please. Geeesh.

[Eumelia]

Some might call Toronto a melting pot because it has so many nationalities. However I would call it a mosaic, not a melting pot. Generally each nationality stays inward, conducting their entire lives in their own language.

[Sailing Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Eumelia

Some might call Toronto a melting pot because it has so many nationalities. However I would call it a mosaic, not a melting pot. Generally each nationality stays inward, conducting their entire lives in their own language.

Call it what you will but it is no different than what is experienced in the United States. It is always interesting around election time in Toronto and the comments that come to surface depending on which MP or MPP is running for office. I will give credit though that more problems haven't surfaced and I hope it stays that way. But melting pot is the term used most times by locals when referring to the subject.

[goat]

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

Call it what you will but it is no different than what is experienced in the United States. It is always interesting around election time in Toronto and the comments that come to surface depending on which MP or MPP is running for office. I will give credit though that more problems haven't surfaced and I hope it stays that way. But melting pot is the term used most times by locals when referring to the subject.

The only thing melting in Toronto is the crack in the Mayor's pipe. Boom!

[Stu Jackson]

Yeah, my wife's family, originally from Germany, spent many, many years in Toronto (1951 to 1995). Then they got smart and moved to Vancouver Island and Vancouver (and my wife is still here with me in San Francisco!).

Weather's better!

[Therapy]

Could these boats just be on someones shopping list?

I know of and have read here of even more of those stories (stories? No, unfortunately true) of those with property, businesses, homes etc. just be taken away by "Mexican Authority". On a whim as it were.

Sad to hear about any of it.

And a personal, just to get targeted - - Zee (God love you) you keep spouting the same stuff but cannot come up with a name. Nothing.

But I sure hope there is not some upheaval that drags you into this. Cause it would look really sad if someone looked at your papers, didn't like your accent or smile and put you on the list.

[ghostrider]

It was the responsibility of the cruisers and visitors to have proper paperwork and placard. There's no one to blame but themselves. If there was a hitch in the original paperwork - I'm sure that will be eventually straightened.

My sister and hubby went to LaPaz for a job they were starting on the commercial docks. Their employer put them up in a hotel until their rig was delivered. I was tasked with bringing down their semi-tractor and trailer (in which they live). I was told by nearly everyone it was impossible - that the govt didn't allow it yet I've seen several in Baja. After contacting their employer in the DF, they said no problemo - which to me means get ready to grease some palms. A week later I arrived at the Chula Vista crossing and was met by a dozen Mexican inspectors and one suited individual. He identified himself to me - showing me his badge and put a placard on each unit and the inspectors disappeared. I turned over the rig to him and ten days later it arrived in La Paz. It cost me $140. The caveat is that they need to remove it from the country in 180 days, but can return three days later for another 180 days + $140. That's simple and straightforward.

I just don't understand a boat owner with a vessel worth a half-million not willing to follow the rules for a $70 fee.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by ghostrider

It was the responsibility of the cruisers and visitors to have proper paperwork and placard. There's no one to blame but themselves. If there was a hitch in the original paperwork - I'm sure that will be eventually straightened.

WADR, that is simply NOT what has been reported.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Lojanica

I love Mexico. I love the Hispanic culture but I visited a restaurant outside of Temecula California (about 60 miles north of the US Mexico border) recently on a road trip and thankfully I speak decent Spanish as no one spoke any in the establishment. This was not a "Mexican Restaurant" but a chain of "American Restaurants."

There are differences in the culture. Having said that I've noticed it really helps to be low key and respectful when traveling in Latin America not just Mexico. Even then one can experience difficulties. But then again ever been to a big US city and not had the same? I can only imagine how a Mexican immigrant must feel when they first arrive to the US had they not already have an established friends and family network to help them through the culture.

Anyways I wish the best for everyone as I plan on cruising Mexico in a year or two. Hopefully cruising doesn't undergo the same as happened to other areas of tourism in Mexico. It has been one of the areas that sort of escaped the same level of difficulties that other land based travel underwent in the last 10 years.

Again... I see nothing wrong with this... I am not in the "LEARN THE LANGUAGE OR GO HOME" CAMP.... Simply stating the actual facts of Spanish speaking in California....

I LOVE Mexico... Traveled every inch of Baja on a 1,000 trips...

The way things are done in Mexico takes a bit of patience and understanding... I would however say this entire impounding fiasco is an extreme that simply shouldn't have happened...