Hookah System?

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Regarding BCD don't you or need a tank for that? Or would it work in combination with a Hookaa too?

No, you don't have to have a tank. In the "old days" (I got certified in 1972) you filled or drained your BCD manually, by blowing air into it. Nowadays most of them have a connection for tank-filling, but you can still find ones that you blow into to fill.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

No, you don't have to have a tank. In the "old days" (I got certified in 1972) you filled or drained your BCD manually, by blowing air into it. Nowadays most of them have a connection for tank-filling, but you can still find ones that you blow into to fill.

Thanks. Still, am I overthinking the risk of a weight belt at say, up to 20ft?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Well I won't get heavier on the way down, but as the suit gets compressed it looses volume and buoyancy, no?

What I meant was that you'll have less buoyancy the deeper you go.

Originally Posted by Franziska

Regarding BCD don't you or need a tank for that? Or would it work in combination with a Hookaa too?

A hookah can be rigged to provide air to a BCD.

Originally Posted by Franziska

Am I overthinking the risk of a weight belt at reasonably shallow depths...?

Yes.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

What I meant was that you'll have less buoyancy the deeper you go.







A hookah can be rigged to provide air to a BCD.







Yes.

Thanks for your input. Appreciate it.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Franziska

What would be a safe but low budget compressor to be run from a 3.2kw genset or Inverter at 220V?

On a side note, I am wondering about the use of weight belts (even when snorkeling or Spear gun fishing), maybe someone can comment on this too?
Say you wear a neoprene suit and put a weight belt on to be kind of neutral buoyant on the surface. Than you dive, say to 15ft with your Hookah. Accidentally you go a bit deeper.
As you are not wearing a flotation vest the buoyancy of your wetsuit should get less the more water pressure compresses the neoprene.
Does that not mean that there will be a moment when the weightbelt becomes risky and starts pulling you down?

I must agree with fstbttms. weight belt is not a big deal. You should always be capable of releasing your weights in an emergency, though, especially when you rely on a BCD to balance your bouyancy on the fly. Malfunctions or damage aren't common but anything is possible. Having a few pounds of weight in pockets on your BCD instead of all on your belt could be a good thing.

FWIW my BC and I don't remember brand or model, a ScubaPro model I think, it is on the boat and I am not there, just that it is a pretty generic one bought with price in mind, but it can be manually inflated, or inflated from the tank. I am sure there are many others with dual inflate capability. A BCD might be regarded as superfluous for hookah or as unneccessary training wheels, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It doesn't restrict your movement enough to be a concern. You can compensate easily for changes in bouyancy due to carrying items that are positively or negatively bouyant. You may find that it is a handy attachment point for your hookah hose.

As you go deeper, you are more compressed. You are at the same weight but take up less volume, so yeah, your bouyancy does become more negative or less positive. Your weights and BC are your rough adjustment. You select slightly more weight than you need for neutral bouyancy, with BC deflated. Over your first three or four dives, you will fine tune your basic weight. In the water, you then use your BCD for coarse bouyancy regulation, and use your breath for fine tuning when you want to just hover. Breathe out, empty your lungs, and if your BCD is inflated correctly, you will sink. Breathe in, fill your lungs, and you will float upwards. After a while it becomes instinctive. You should always be able to dump at least enough weight to float without expending a lot of energy. An uncontrolled ascent from depth of course is to be avoided, so dumping just enough for a definite positive bouyancy is ideal.

Most or many hookah users do not use a BCD and do not see a need for one. When you are just flippering and paddling around, bouyancy control is not really a big deal. When you are working at some task, such as harvesting shellfish or cleaning a boat bottom or whatever, it becomes much more useful, even important.

Even with hookah, knowing the essentials of diving is important, and even at shallow depths, competence at your basic recovery/emergency tasks could be very important some day. Basic stuff, like clearing your reg or mask, should be practiced in a controlled environment such as chest deep water or a swimming pool. Youtube has lots of videos that show all the various exercises required for SCUBA certification, and a lot of them are relevant to hookah diving. At normal boat bottom depth, barotrauma is not an issue, but if you spend a lot of time at greater depths, you really need to know how to avoid it. One issue with hookah vs SCUBA is with SCUBA, you can only stay down long enough to deplete your tank, while with hookah, you can cheerfully stay down for hours. You should be able to stay at 40 feet for 45 minutes or so with an 80cuft tank and still have a reasonable reserve of air, and you should not need a decompression stop on ascent if you ascend properly. But if you are at 40 feet for three hours, then if you don't have a dive computer, you need to know how to manage your decompression using dive tables, and honestly you should know that, anyway. I believe most hookah compressors are capable of supporting a single diver at 40 feet easily. So, it is quite possible to get DCS (Decompression Sickness, or "the bends") while hookah diving. Rarely, divers have got DCS at much shallower depths. For all practical purposes, a single SCUBA dive to less than 30 foot depth requires no decompression stop but extreme dive times made possible by essentially unlimited surface air delivery definitely put the lie to that factoid. For most of us, working on our boats only requires depths of at most, about 8 feet and we usually don't require more than an hour or two, even for a complete bottom clean or prop clearance. Just keep in mind that hookah will allow the ignorant to experience DCS if they really work at it.

On thinking about it, yeah there is no reason why your hookah hose cannot be provided with a connection to your BCD inflate. If there is enough pressure delivered to run your hookah regulator then there is enough pressure and more, to inflate your BCD. Nevertheless, I would recommend that you get used to oral inflation, as well.

Most of the time, when just clearing a prop or a through hull, or cleaning the bottom, many of us dive with no buddy, particularly on hookah, and surface helpers are sometimes sort of sketchy. Yeah, it happens. That doesn't mean it is a great idea. While you are just starting out, you really ought to have a dive buddy or at least a competent person on the surface, monitoring you. Work out a signalling system, too. The old OATH system works fine. One tug for "Okay?" or "I am okay" or just "affirmative". Two tugs for "advance" or "I am advancing". You might need more slack or something, right? Three tugs for "Taking in slack" or "take in slack". Four or more tugs for "HELP!!!" or "EMERGENCY!".

[GrowleyMonster]

Oh, here is an interesting article on shallow water DCS.
https://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/d...nds199810.html

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I must agree with fstbttms. weight belt is not a big deal. You should always be capable of releasing your weights in an emergency, though, especially when you rely on a BCD to balance your bouyancy on the fly. Malfunctions or damage aren't common but anything is possible. Having a few pounds of weight in pockets on your BCD instead of all on your belt could be a good thing.

FWIW my BC and I don't remember brand or model, a ScubaPro model I think, it is on the boat and I am not there, just that it is a pretty generic one bought with price in mind, but it can be manually inflated, or inflated from the tank. I am sure there are many others with dual inflate capability. A BCD might be regarded as superfluous for hookah or as unneccessary training wheels, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It doesn't restrict your movement enough to be a concern. You can compensate easily for changes in bouyancy due to carrying items that are positively or negatively bouyant. You may find that it is a handy attachment point for your hookah hose.

As you go deeper, you are more compressed. You are at the same weight but take up less volume, so yeah, your bouyancy does become more negative or less positive. Your weights and BC are your rough adjustment. You select slightly more weight than you need for neutral bouyancy, with BC deflated. Over your first three or four dives, you will fine tune your basic weight. In the water, you then use your BCD for coarse bouyancy regulation, and use your breath for fine tuning when you want to just hover. Breathe out, empty your lungs, and if your BCD is inflated correctly, you will sink. Breathe in, fill your lungs, and you will float upwards. After a while it becomes instinctive. You should always be able to dump at least enough weight to float without expending a lot of energy. An uncontrolled ascent from depth of course is to be avoided, so dumping just enough for a definite positive bouyancy is ideal.

Most or many hookah users do not use a BCD and do not see a need for one. When you are just flippering and paddling around, bouyancy control is not really a big deal. When you are working at some task, such as harvesting shellfish or cleaning a boat bottom or whatever, it becomes much more useful, even important.

Even with hookah, knowing the essentials of diving is important, and even at shallow depths, competence at your basic recovery/emergency tasks could be very important some day. Basic stuff, like clearing your reg or mask, should be practiced in a controlled environment such as chest deep water or a swimming pool. Youtube has lots of videos that show all the various exercises required for SCUBA certification, and a lot of them are relevant to hookah diving. At normal boat bottom depth, barotrauma is not an issue, but if you spend a lot of time at greater depths, you really need to know how to avoid it. One issue with hookah vs SCUBA is with SCUBA, you can only stay down long enough to deplete your tank, while with hookah, you can cheerfully stay down for hours. You should be able to stay at 40 feet for 45 minutes or so with an 80cuft tank and still have a reasonable reserve of air, and you should not need a decompression stop on ascent if you ascend properly. But if you are at 40 feet for three hours, then if you don't have a dive computer, you need to know how to manage your decompression using dive tables, and honestly you should know that, anyway. I believe most hookah compressors are capable of supporting a single diver at 40 feet easily. So, it is quite possible to get DCS (Decompression Sickness, or "the bends") while hookah diving. Rarely, divers have got DCS at much shallower depths. For all practical purposes, a single SCUBA dive to less than 30 foot depth requires no decompression stop but extreme dive times made possible by essentially unlimited surface air delivery definitely put the lie to that factoid. For most of us, working on our boats only requires depths of at most, about 8 feet and we usually don't require more than an hour or two, even for a complete bottom clean or prop clearance. Just keep in mind that hookah will allow the ignorant to experience DCS if they really work at it.

On thinking about it, yeah there is no reason why your hookah hose cannot be provided with a connection to your BCD inflate. If there is enough pressure delivered to run your hookah regulator then there is enough pressure and more, to inflate your BCD. Nevertheless, I would recommend that you get used to oral inflation, as well.

Most of the time, when just clearing a prop or a through hull, or cleaning the bottom, many of us dive with no buddy, particularly on hookah, and surface helpers are sometimes sort of sketchy. Yeah, it happens. That doesn't mean it is a great idea. While you are just starting out, you really ought to have a dive buddy or at least a competent person on the surface, monitoring you. Work out a signalling system, too. The old OATH system works fine. One tug for "Okay?" or "I am okay" or just "affirmative". Two tugs for "advance" or "I am advancing". You might need more slack or something, right? Three tugs for "Taking in slack" or "take in slack". Four or more tugs for "HELP!!!" or "EMERGENCY!".

Thanks more valuable info.

A little background on the reason I was asking this, I know a guy who had a somewhat sketchy Hookah which was providing a fairly limited amount of air.

Which lead to the thought, if he uses this solo anyway and faints with his weight belt on he might be gone for good.
The above answers underline that this thought was right.

So, not a clever decision to use this, especially not solo.

Only use 100% proper and functional kit. I know that this is what the logic dictates and what anyone should really do. Unfortunately folks defy logic sometimes, hence accidents happen despite better knowledge.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Oh, here is an interesting article on shallow water DCS.
https://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/d...nds199810.html

Super interesting. Thanks for finding this.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Franziska

...if he uses this solo anyway and faints with his weight belt on he might be gone for good.

Why would he faint?

[team karst]

If the job is not big, i just snorkle it. And i have a multitude of tanks, even a compressor at hand. I need to keep my lungs in shape for game. [emoji106]

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Why would he faint?

If he pushes it to get the job done and does only receive a limited amount of air?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Franziska

If he pushes it to get the job done and does only receive a limited amount of air?

Having used hookahs professionally for over 28 years, I can tell you that he would be very uncomfortable working with too little air supply and would be at the surface long before he ever came close to losing consciousness.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Having used hookahs professionally for over 28 years, I can tell you that he would be very uncomfortable working with too little air supply and would be at the surface long before he ever came close to losing consciousness.

Thanks, there are folks who are very tenacious when it comes to getting a job done, even when very uncomfortable.

Still, good to hear from a man with your experience that it is unlikely to happen.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thanks, there are folks who are very tenacious when it comes to getting a job done, even when very uncomfortable.

Still, good to hear from a man with your experience that it is unlikely to happen.

Here's a little experiment for you. Cut a piece of PVC water pipe or some other tubing about the size of a snorkel, and stick a snorkel mouthpiece on it. Make the pipe nice and long, maybe 6 feet. Stick the other end through a large crab float or other large piece of styrofoam, so it will float at least a few inches out of the water if not actually pulled under. Take this to a swimming pool, along with a couple of 10 or 15 lb dumbbells. Get in the water, in the shallow end, with the mouthpiece in your mouth. Back out into deeper water, with the tube in your mouth. Keep going and notice how much more difficult it is to breathe when you are about eyeballs deep in the water. Keep going. Your dumbbells should keep you walking on the bottom. You will notice it becomes very difficult to breathe once you are completely under water. Try to go out to the deep end. I dare ya. Don't worry, when you panic you can just drop the dumbbells. You will NOT stay down when air at normal 1 bar pressure is not enough to let you inhale. PRO TIP: inhale through the tube, exhale directly out your mouth or nose. If you exhale in the tube, your next inhale will have too much CO2 and not enough Oxygen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua0hC-4Cohk

That inability to draw a breath is exactly the effect you would experience when diving deeper than your hookah rig is good for. You will find it more and more difficult to draw a breath through your regulator and the regulator will simply shut off. You should have a free flow valve on your hookah regulator but when you open that, you will still not get enough air. You will surface, in a panic probably, very quickly. That is why some training, even self training, is important. But if you keep your regulator in your mouth, as you continue struggling to get a breath, you will find that as you ascend, you will reach a point where suddenly the regulator starts supplying you with air again. Lesson learned. If your hookah will not deliver enough air pressure for you to breathe at 45 feet, don't go down to 45 feet. You won't pass out. You will ascend, desperately.

[RaymondR]

I built one using a truck two piston aircon compressor which hung under the main engine. Used a pressure switch to kick the electric clutch in and out for pressure control.

The compressed air went into the bottom of a stainless steel receiver inside a seawater cooled sleeve. The bottom of the 4" ID receiver contained an oil droplet catcher composed of alternating SS mesh and felt disks and on top of that was a bag of activated charcoal.

I cleaned out the refrigeration oil in the compressor and refilled it with the synthetic oil they use on dive compressors. Hose was 50' of human consumption rated stuff I bought from a hose supplier and the regulator and mouthpiece from a pawn shop.

It worked well but I mostly used it for air power tools in maintaining my steel boat. The only problem I had with the aircon compressor was rust on the valve plates because they were carbon steel.