For Fun: Helm Steer or Helm Tiller ?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You must have missed the "at anchor" part. Clearly a wheel takes up less cockpit room while sailing. I don't think anyone has ever argued that point. But at anchor almost all tillers can easily be flipped up so that they are completely out of the way.

With a wheel, at best you can go to some effort to remove the wheel, and then only have the pedestal intruding in the cockpit. Or you can spend a great deal of money on a folding wheel. Or you can just deal with the wheel making a portion of the cockpit virtually unusable. Again, AT ANCHOR.

I do understand. However, the ONLY "inaccessible" place when at anchor is behind the wheel, and I don't spend much time there even when sailing.

My point is that the entire cockpit, except for the helmsman's position is open, completely, so I don't feel I'm missing any "space" with a wheel.

Not all sailboats with tillers can pop the tiller completely up and out of the way. I know, for example, it can be done on a Catlaina 27, but on both my Catalina 22 & the 25 the tiller could only be moved aside, because the traveler bar is right above the tiller. It was always in the way.

Just sayin'...

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I do understand. However, the ONLY "inaccessible" place when at anchor is behind the wheel, and I don't spend much time there even when sailing.

My point is that the entire cockpit, except for the helmsman's position is open, completely, so I don't feel I'm missing any "space" with a wheel.

Not all sailboats with tillers can pop the tiller completely up and out of the way. I know, for example, it can be done on a Catlaina 27, but on both my Catalina 22 & the 25 the tiller could only be moved aside, because the traveler bar is right above the tiller. It was always in the way.

Just sayin'...

The pedestal is in front of the helsman, guests can sit beside the helmsman under way. Guests also sit beside my tiller at times in the "corner seats" but it is a little more cramped, especially when tacking.

At anchor the tiller flips up and is clipped to the backstay. This opens the whole cockpit floor up. This doesn't happen with a wheel. The pedestal is still there. Also if boarding from/through the transom you do have to pass people and kit around the wheel and pedestal.

I am not averse to a wheel at all, but they are more practical above 35-40 feet. A folding wheel would be a necessity for me, having used them on charters, they make so much sense.

[GaryMayo]

Some people have cocktail tables on their pedestals. Try that on a tiller! lol

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You must have missed the "at anchor" part. Clearly a wheel takes up less cockpit room while sailing. I don't think anyone has ever argued that point. But at anchor almost all tillers can easily be flipped up so that they are completely out of the way.

With a wheel, at best you can go to some effort to remove the wheel, and then only have the pedestal intruding in the cockpit. Or you can spend a great deal of money on a folding wheel. Or you can just deal with the wheel making a portion of the cockpit virtually unusable. Again, AT ANCHOR.

[Tallswede]

Actually, you can mount a table on the tiller with the right setup. Works okay but I've always noticed the table moves a bit with the tiller, even tied off. The tillers definately open up the cockpit at anchor when tilted out of the way. My little Hunter 23.5 has a roomy cockpit for such a small boat with the tiller out of the way.

Kevin

[malbert73]

I definitely vote tiller. I had a wheel when I bought my boat, but converted to tiller.

Best of all, I don't have to use a tiller pilot since I have a below decks quadrant installed from the wheel steering. I attached a linear drive autopilot belowdeck, and I can flip the tiller up to vertical while sailing or motoring and steer by autopilot. Bulletproof and completely opens up the cockpit.

When hand steering, feel and response is much easier. Plus, with tiller down I can steer from companionway under dodger. Beats the hell out of sitting aft behind the pedestal watching spray clear the dodger and hit me square in the face....

[bail-me-out]

I've used both tiller and wheel and much prefer the wheel with non sailor company on board. A tiller swings all over the place, knocking knee caps off, crushing ankles, and generally causing mayhem, "sit here, sit there, move back, move up" where as...a wheel is in a static position in the cockpit everyone knows where it is, and they ALL know the space behind the wheel is mine

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by minaret

What a histrionic response to the truth! This is cruisers forum, not day sailers forum. If you plan on cruising far, a good reliable autopilot is worth its weight in gold. Do a search on this forum alone and note the legions of problems people have experienced with tiller pilots. They are simply not built for harsh conditions. A well balanced boat with a quality windvane and tiller steering can come close to the convenience and safety of a real autopilot, but most boats don't sail downwind well with a vane. And if equipment failure reduces you to hand steering alone in bad conditions for a long period of time (as it almost certainly will at the worst possible time if you go offshore with a tiller pilot for long), wrestling the tiller may exhaust you faster than a good wheel setup. This is a basic safety concern for anyone who seriously cruises far afield. Many people have and still do do it succesfully, but that doesn't mean its the best arrangement. If you have a choice, as you posited in the op, for a CRUISING boat a wheel is the superior setup. The market and almost all manufacturers clearly agree with me on this. I would like to know what is so harsh about stating this simple fact?

There are facts and there are facts. Chichester sailed the south oceans following the clipper route and setting a record with a tiller and homemade windvane on a 60 foot boat if I'm mistaken. Last week I helped a fellow move a 50 foot steel schooner from one marina to another. I steered for a while, using a shovel handle attached to the rudder of a windvane. The boat had hydraulics and a wheel but was easier to steer with the windvane. It was very well balanced. The fellow has taken this schooner through the NW Passage using that steering method.

My own boat has two steering stations, hydraulic and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love being able to steer from the pilothouse. On the other hand I've sailed smaller boats with tillers and thought it was fun. Hydraulics mean you can't tie off the wheel so it's the AP or nothing.

You adjust to what you have I suppose.

[bruce smith]

I use the tiller comb, monitor, sheet to tiller, tiller pilot hooked to monitor, and shock cord. And all combinations in between.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by bail-me-out

I've used both tiller and wheel and much prefer the wheel with non sailor company on board. A tiller swings all over the place, knocking knee caps off, crushing ankles, and generally causing mayhem, "sit here, sit there, move back, move up" where as...a wheel is in a static position in the cockpit everyone knows where it is, and they ALL know the space behind the wheel is mine

Great post!

All the posts are interesting.

I switched today from wheel to larger wheel.

[alexanick]

I bought a Cal 29 with a tiller, last August. My previous boat was 1960 S&S design, 26' New Horizon, built by Ray Greene in Toledo, Oh. I sailed it for 11 years with many solo 10 hour cruises. Never found the tiller set up to be uncomfortable or inconvenient. On the Cal, the tiller is longer. This may be a big factor in that it is uncomfortable on a longer journey, and also very inconvenient when you have more than one other person in the cockpit. Everybody on the side your tacking to has to change position. I am in the process of converting to wheel. No matter, any day on the water is a good day. Ken

" You can teach a man how to sail, but you can't teach him why"

[s/v Beth]

For those that believe that wheels, autopilots and large seas don't mix.
Going wing on wing downwind, 20 miles off shore. 20 knt winds, 6 foot swells. 7+ knots speed over ground.

[Cheechako]

I like a tiller, but when steering, reaching out to steer can be very tiring after a while. A wheel gets rid of SOME of this but not all.

[MarcHall]

Originally Posted by GaryMayo

Post your preference and add the running total.

Post a pic if you a mind to.

I am upgrading from 20" to 30". So I am interested in what the rest of you are holding in the wind. Mine is a new boat to me, and that small wheel is not to my preference. I have room, so I am going bigger.

Steer : 1. Tiller: 0

I converted my Crealock 37 from wheel to tiller and much prefer the tiller.


Best
Marc
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37