Does constant anchoring wear you down?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Can you really imagine a 67 year old woman who would have learned to sail at 62, then "got a bigger boat" as the movie says -- and moved aboard it -- took it out single-handed over and over, or with others as crew -- can you imagine such a woman just sitting back while people make up things that make her look completely ignorant about sailing? To sit silently while people say she's a "danger to others?"


I'm getting the blame here, Jim, but I'm not the one sitting around, saying "I know! We'll say that she made an unexpected course change at the last moment, leaving the captain of the bigger boat clueless about what was going on." "I know, we'll say she says the rudder does something different if you turn around." (HUH?) Then we'll get sarcastic and insulting, but call it "teaching." Or my favorite, that a sailboat can't get out of a freighter's way and its *only* choice is to stay there in its path, even though we KNOW they don't have brakes any more than we do. I must have been in 50 collisons with freighters and hundreds with other pleasure boaters so far. You'd think I'd have made the news by now "Silve-haired lady sailor a terror on the waters! Details at ten ..." I'm surprised my boat still floats after all those collisions!


What a fun game. That's what's going on, Jim.

Raku, I'm not the psychologist in our family... that's Ann! But I'm bothered by your feelings of persecution expressed above. I respect your accomlishments as a late starter in the sailing game, and submit that you have posted some useful and interesting things here on CF. But, IMO you have also posted some mistaken points of view. Some of the responses to these have been rude, but often they are, again IMO, reasonably presented. What I have seen is that you become defensive and seem unwilling to ever acknowledge that you might have been wrong. This sequence, I think, has led to escalation of rhetoric and eventually to the sort of exchanges evidenced in this thread, and these do no one any good. You have accumulated some 5000+ posts here on CF. I have not done the counting, but I suspect that well over half of them have been your angry responses in defense of your posts, and that's a shame for us all. A shame for us for not letting it go, and for you for insisting on the last word. So often it devolves into disagreements based on semantics rather than seamanship or technical knowledge. We are all the poorer when this happens, and it would be good if we could change the pathway somehow.

I have had some of my posts denigrated and admit that such responses sting a bit. But I have generally just backed out of the discussion after a few rounds and gone on with life... I haven't enough years left to waste time on fruitless arguments, and I don't really care if folks think that I'm a silly old fart. I don't know if this sort of response would work for you, but it would be good if some alternative process could help avoid these contentious exchanges.

Hope that we can find a path...


cheers,

Jim

[bobconnie]

Gosh! The last boat I had with a Tiller was a folkboat, and that was in 1957! So I remember nothing about backing up with one!! But I will say,Scoobert your current anchor is to small and has been a terrible anchor forever! Ive been welding them into statues and selling them!! Thats what I think of CQRs If you really want an anchor that will work for ya, try either a bigger one or a better style! Not trying to give ya crap!, but I gave up on CQRs 30 yrs ago!! I would rather use a Danforth then a CQR! Just my 2 cents from a LITTLE anchoring time

[Jimbo485]

Raku, can you please give us a run down on your techniques for drogues and sea anchors?

[monte]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So how about the drawing?

Attachment 68518

I am absolutely sure, that every single CFer, including Raku, will give the right answer to this question:

With the tiller and rudder turned the way they are in the drawing, which way will the boat go in reverse? Towards the left side of the page (from your POV), or the right side of the page? The stern is at the top of the page, the bow the bottom. The port side of the boat is on the right side of the page, the starboard side is on the left side of the page. For orientation.

After answering -- "of course, the right side of the page" -- we can all go to bed, knowing that none of us is crazy, although there is some stubborn problem with communication.

After all the effort to make that AWESOME drawing and noone has answered, it seems a huge waste of artistic talent soooo...I'll have a go!

A/ of course, the right side of the page

I may have cheated a bit but I still believe this is the correct answer, (subject to hemispheres) etc maybe

[kim r]

thats it - i'm not going

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Raku, I'm not the psychologist in our family... that's Ann! But I'm bothered by your feelings of persecution expressed above. I respect your accomlishments as a late starter in the sailing game, and submit that you have posted some useful and interesting things here on CF. But, IMO you have also posted some mistaken points of view. Some of the responses to these have been rude, but often they are, again IMO, reasonably presented. What I have seen is that you become defensive and seem unwilling to ever acknowledge that you might have been wrong. This sequence, I think, has led to escalation of rhetoric and eventually to the sort of exchanges evidenced in this thread, and these do no one any good. You have accumulated some 5000+ posts here on CF. I have not done the counting, but I suspect that well over half of them have been your angry responses in defense of your posts, and that's a shame for us all. A shame for us for not letting it go, and for you for insisting on the last word. So often it devolves into disagreements based on semantics rather than seamanship or technical knowledge. We are all the poorer when this happens, and it would be good if we could change the pathway somehow.

I have had some of my posts denigrated and admit that such responses sting a bit. But I have generally just backed out of the discussion after a few rounds and gone on with life... I haven't enough years left to waste time on fruitless arguments, and I don't really care if folks think that I'm a silly old fart. I don't know if this sort of response would work for you, but it would be good if some alternative process could help avoid these contentious exchanges.

Hope that we can find a path...


cheers,

Jim

Jim, please don't trouble yourself. You say you want this to end, but you have found a whole new can of worms to open -- we're -- as amateurs, mind you -- going to discuss the PSYCHOLOGY of someone? I don't think so! I certainly wouldn't do it to you.

You may not see it, and that's probably great because probabaly you see the best in people routinely (I know something about psychology myself).

I have numerous emails from others who have seen what I have seen. I am also a person who typically sees the best in others and who will accept a lot of flaws in another person. That's bit me on the butt a couple of times but I would rather be that kind of person.

Now let's end the psychology discussion -- NOW. Please.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Gosh! The last boat I had with a Tiller was a folkboat, and that was in 1957! So I remember nothing about backing up with one!! But I will say,Scoobert your current anchor is to small and has been a terrible anchor forever! Ive been welding them into statues and selling them!! Thats what I think of CQRs If you really want an anchor that will work for ya, try either a bigger one or a better style! Not trying to give ya crap!, but I gave up on CQRs 30 yrs ago!! I would rather use a Danforth then a CQR! Just my 2 cents from a LITTLE anchoring time

I had a CQR on my old boat, but it was oversized for the boat -- and was never tested. If I needed an anchor and you recommended one for me I would go get that anchor -- I'm that confident of your experience and advice. With the trip Scoobert is planning I hope he listens to people here about anchors.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Jimbo485

Raku, can you please give us a run down on your techniques for drogues and sea anchors?

No. Make up whatever you want.

[captain58sailin]

I am sure that I am alone in this opinion, but I have used a CQR thoughout the south Pacific and it never drug. Then they invented the Bruce, now we have the Manson, Ronca. I have used the Danforth style on many different styles of vessels in a variety of holding grounds and the only place I have had a problem with getting the danforth to hold was in loose gravel and eventually we let out enough scope for it to dig in. The large part of the anchoring problems cited in this forum can be put into 2 different camps, #1 Not enough scope, #2 Too light of an anchor for the application. I favor chain over any other kind of rode. I understand that it is not practical for many yacht types to carry an all chain rode, but I would have at least 20, (insert the appropriate length for your size vessel) fathoms of chain for anchoring. Frankly, I don't understand all the back an forth about anchors. If it works, then use it, if it doesn't, get another different one. Before changing anchors take a look at how you are anchoring. I see a lot of people on here looking for a "one size fits all" answer to their different problems afloat or otherwise. Going to sea doesn't work like that, there are some absolutes like " keep more water out of the boat than you let in." "Don't go into water shallower than your draft." "When checking the rigging, pee to the lee" the rest is up to your individual experience. There will be different answers for different people for the same situations, if the desired results were acheived, then that is all that matters. Raku is right, if the stern goes in then the bow will follow, unless it falls off and slams into something. It is also true that if the bow goes in the rest will follow. Your pivot point is about 1/3 the way abaft the bow, and it moves farther aft the faster you are going. Raku, if you are teaching people how to sail then you are indeed an instructor whether it is professional or for free, you don't need a certificate to prove that you are able to teach well. We have a saying in Alaska " F**k em and feed em fish". I don't think Socrates had a teaching license, pretty sure neither did Jesus. If you are looking for wisdom on the internet, you are truly lost. Watch what your neighbors are doing, if they slam their boat, then don't do what they did. Advice is worth what it costs. Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one and they all stink.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I had a CQR on my old boat, but it was oversized for the boat -- and was never tested. If I needed an anchor and you recommended one for me I would go get that anchor -- I'm that confident of your experience and advice. With the trip Scoobert is planning I hope he listens to people here about anchors.

By "never tested," I mean that I never had the CQR anchor down under challenging conditions.

[Hudson Force]

I think Sea Monkey understands Rakuflames and now I do to. I woke early this morning while anchored on the Waccamaw near Georgetown, SC, with dreams of the Rosetta Stone. Any of us who speak with the use of standard nautical terms can agree with Rakuflames if we understand her language. I believe that when Rakuflames faces aft and turns her tiller to the same direction as she steers in reverse, she is using her tiller as a line of sight. With your hand grasping the distal end of the tiler and viewing down the shaft to the proximal end at the rudder post, this line of sight can be used to point in the direction that you want to steer in reverse. Therefore, when Rakuflames "points" her tiller to starboard her boat reverses to starboard; while most everryone else turns their tiller to port in order to reverse to starboard. Rakuflames knows what she is talking about. She is simply speaking a different language!

[Coops]

Ah, that is it. "Pushing the tiller to port makes the boat go to port" does not mean that. Now I understand.

Coops.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So how about the drawing?

Attachment 68518

I am absolutely sure, that every single CFer, including Raku, will give the right answer to this question:

With the tiller and rudder turned the way they are in the drawing, which way will the boat go in reverse? Towards the left side of the page (from your POV), or the right side of the page? The stern is at the top of the page, the bow the bottom. The port side of the boat is on the right side of the page, the starboard side is on the left side of the page. For orientation.

After answering -- "of course, the right side of the page" -- we can all go to bed, knowing that none of us is crazy, although there is some stubborn problem with communication.

Same answer if you're going forwards too. Just saying.

[roverhi]

This has gotta be the dumbest off topic thread I've seen in my years on this site. When going backward and facing backward, move the tiller to line up with the way you hope to turn. Say hope to turn because it really doesn't matter which way the tiller is pointed on my boat in reverse. Boat goes where it wants to. The opposite is true going forward and facing forward.

'NUFF SAID, END THIS CRAZYNESS!!!! New visitors to this site are going to think we are all bonkers.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by roverhi

This has gotta be the dumbest off topic thread I've seen in my years on this site. When going backward and facing backward, move the tiller to line up with the way you hope to turn. Say hope to turn because it really doesn't matter which way the tiller is pointed on my boat in reverse. Boat goes where it wants to. The opposite is true going forward and facing forward.

'NUFF SAID, END THIS CRAZYNESS!!!! New visitors to this site are going to think we are all bonkers.

WE ARE BONKERS.

The original talk was on a boat that did not have a tiller. It had a WHEEL!

And then if you don't know the difference between a tiller and a rudder (and use the wrong term) there is all hale happening.

LOL.