Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

[RaymondR]

Nah, you got it all wrong, it's all to do with baby boomers being escapists who saw cruising and living aboard a boat as a means of escaping their family and societal obligations.

[valhalla360]

I don't think it's a lack of money or willingness to learn a hobby.
I think there are simply a lot more options not available in the 60's.

Back then a vacation was drive somewhere within 100-200 miles. A big trip might be a 500-1000 miles drive...for most there were limited destinations in those ranges, so you went back to the same ones year after year...many simply chose to get a boat in one of those destinations and their sailing experience developed from there. Air travel was expensive. It was for the rich or a once in a lifetime trip.

Now you can do a long weekend 2000-3000 miles away. Why would you go back to the same beach on the Jersey shore when there are so many options.

A couple of side notes:
- A lot of those boats built in the 60-70's were built like tanks. Are they undermining the new boat demand? Why would you dump $200k into a new 30' boat when you can pick one up in good condition for $25k?
- I think a lot of it is the middle size range where numbers are down. Jet skis and bass boats still sell well and cruising boat manufacturers seem to start at 45'. 45' used to be the big flagship model and most cruisers were in the 25-35' range.

[john61ct]

The big question for me is not ownership.

Most people buy and the boat stays parked, just a trophy possession.

Harder to figure out, how many are actually out there cruising, owner aboard away from shore more than say 15-20 nights a year?

[LakeSuperior]

Consider that most new college grads, of which are a higher percent of the population compared with 20 years ago, graduates with a huge debt. They can't afford a house or much of anything for the next 20 years. We have become a nation of indentured servants because of college loans.

Additionally, earnings have been flat for 15 years partially because in a world economy we are competing against people making 5 dollars a day. So we have to compete in a world economy and the resulting wage pressures so in equalized dollars most are making relatively less.

In the end there are fewer people with sufficient disposable income for yachting.

Second issue is sedentation. It's indulgence in computers and computer games. An article published today is complaining that med students don't have the manual dexterity to tie sutures. https://www.bbc.com/news/education-46019429

It's because they are not used to working with their hands. So if you aren't good at working on stuff how are you going to own a boat?

Along with that consider that a third of the kids I graduated from high school with lived on the farm. Probably 10 percent are on the farm now at the same school.

Fundamental social and economic changes are most likely the reason why there are many older sailors and fewer younger sailors and why fewer new boats are being sold.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Thalas

"Van life" is HUGE with younger generations. This is a large group of adventurous explorers who prefer a slightly nomadic existence. That SHOULD fit well with the boating lifestyle.

Most people I met in vans are not very adventurous and live off gas station hot dogs.

The reality is that boating is geography constrained to the coasts almost exclusively. Add to that the fact that boats wear parts at a significantly higher rate meaning significantly higher costs than vans.

From what I have learned, you can get all of the parts that wear out for free, so there is no cost.

Once you own a van, you can find ways to park it for free. Once you own a boat, you have a new form of rent in the form of marina fees or the like.

I found the opposite to be true. I can always anchor the boat for free, but often times people on vans explain about evading street sweepers, and stealth parking I don't worry about. I watched police tell someone in a van to move on last month.

Additionally, many van lifers can still earn income via internet connection and this is a much trickier hoop to jump through on the water.

I always have internet connection on the water unless offshore. I am actually underway right now.

The difference in interest is largely limited by finances as older people simply have much more time and disposable income.

Finally, while van life can fit the lifestyle of a mountain biker, rock climber, snowboarder, or any one of hundreds of hobbies, boat life is more limited in general to water sports.

You can still do mountain biking, rock climbing etc, and many people have this equipment onboard.

Originally Posted by gaucho

Well, you are forgetting one important point: to sail you actually need to know how to sail. Even with a powerboat you still need to know some basic navigation anyhow. A van ... just stick to the right lane (unless in UK or conquered lands), and know how to drive. That's it.

I find sailing very intuitive. In fact I cannot drive, and don't have license but sailing is so easy.. raise sail, wait for wind, and steer. I don't even steer, I always use autopilot so it's even easier. There is so much more space to maneuver and less obstacles to hit, and if you do hit something it's slow enough that usually no problem and much safer.

By comparison, driving is a nightmare with traffic and always breathing toxic fumes and any crazy person can kill you. Yes we have powerboats to worry about, but there are fewer, and the risk is lower.

The entry price of sailing is higher. It actually requires you to know a LOT of stuff. That's what makes it enciting to me and others. But not everyone

Not sure. Since sailing can be completely for free without price, I don't see how driving on a road can possibly be any cheaper, but as you said, this may require some knowledge.

Originally Posted by Bob Morane

A mate of mine got a round the world flying ticket.

It is :
- safer

Is it really?

- faster

Yes

- cheaper

Not in my case. Not for traveling around the world.

- not sea restrained

Not air restrained. A lot more on the sea. In either case you can still travel on land or other methods at various destinations.. so there is not much point here.

- way more flexible

This is not true. It is apples to orange comparison. I don't claim one over the other. There are a lot of places you cannot fly that you can sail to.

- has no skill requirements

Isn't that a bad thing? Lets hear about your trip "I flew in a commercial jet around the world" : boring

Sailing is now for sea lovers or bored rich people.

always was

I know it is selfish but I am pretty happy that sailing, especially cruising, has remained a niche and that there are still unspoiled places to explore.

Don't worry, they are all getting spoiled even if people don't go there.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

Most people I met in vans are not very adventurous and live off gas station hot dogs.
From what I have learned, you can get all of the parts that wear out for free, so there is no cost.
I found the opposite to be true. I can always anchor the boat for free, but often times people on vans explain about evading street sweepers, and stealth parking I don't worry about. I watched police tell someone in a van to move on last month.
I always have internet connection on the water unless offshore. I am actually underway right now.
You can still do mountain biking, rock climbing etc, and many people have this equipment onboard.....

Is the apocalypse starting?

I actually agree with just about everything you said for once.

Honestly, I don't think large numbers of young folks are buying a van to live in. An old RV is pretty cheap and much more comfortable.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by redbeard1

Unfortunately, I could only find that number for all sailboat sizes not just that for sailboats 30-59 feet.

According to the information I found, the number of sailboat registrations has been more or less flat for twenty years.

Hi redbeard1,
Thanks for the additional data!
It does seem hard to find historical numbers that tell the story.
I also used someone else's 30-59' category because I noticed that the majority of the all-sailboat data was comprised of the under-20' boats. Since the vast majority of sailboats in North America are under 20', yet almost all cruising boats are >20', it seems important to draw the line somewhere.

In looking for other cruiser data, I noticed that the Latitude 38 Baha Ha Ha 750 mile cruiser rally from San Diego to Cabo San Lucas is currently under way, in it's 25th year. I'm sure many factors affect the participation, but there was a peak in the total boat count 8 years ago. (looks to be trending up again though).

[SV THIRD DAY]

Economics 101....
If you have no disposable income you have no boat.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...us/1809629002/


But on the other hand the numbers of Cruisers heading off cruising is Huge.... and on other threads you can see long time Cruisers complaining about how crowded the anchorages and marinas are down in Paradise.

[Mike OReilly]

I’ve been predicting for a long time that we are seeing the peak of cruising with the Baby Boomer generation. As they sail off into the sunset the cruising population will continue to decline.

I should specify; when I say cruisers, I mean people who are living on a boat for long periods of time. Not just for a year sabbatical, and certainly not just holidaying. I mean people who have the financial ability to leave permanently.

And that gets to the crux of it. A cruising sailboat is an expense fewer people in western countries can afford. This is certainly true of North America (Canada/USA) where wages have stagnated (Canada is slightly better), and costs for most of the important things in life have skyrocketed. Education, housing, healthcare, families, pensions …. these have all way outpaced inflation. Meanwhile, the doodads that allow us to entertain ourselves to death are ubiquitous and relatively cheap.

Even more importantly, the upcoming generations live with far less certainty about their future. The days of good pensions are gone. Living in the “gig economy” means a constant struggle for the next buck, with no security for the future.

It’s true, a boating lifestyle can be a frugal way of living. But only if you make some pretty clear choices, and avoid the indentured slavery known as debt. But not surprisingly, that is hard to do in our societies.

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by cyan

There was a lively debate in a recent thread [1] where a younger cruiser was looking for other younger cruisers to join together in discussion. The nagging question popped up: WHERE are all the younger sailors? There was quite a banter involving differences between millennials and baby boomers, distribution of wealth, modern distractions, and other factors resulting in far fewer sailors these days...

Alas… who remembers all those thousands of BOATS manufactured back in the day?
The whole discussion reminded me of those Glory Days of sailboat production… the 1970s and 1980s. (perhaps the 60s too?) The timely combination of fiberglass technology, disposable income, leisure time and the oil crisis created a peak in sailboat production. The king of the every-man sailboat, Catalina Yachts, had churned out almost 25,000 sailboats per decade by 1990. Since then, they have averaged maybe 3,000 / decade, with dozens of competitors going under. [2][7]
If you examine more recent sailboat production data, the downward trend continues. In North America, the year 2000 saw more than 20,000 sailboats produced annually. In 2017 there were only 7000. [3] The number of active sailboat manufacturers in North America has dropped by 1/3 in the last 10 years. It's at 92 now. [6]

Sure, the people-question is still a good one, though probably beaten to death in the mentioned thread.[1] One thing discussed was the point that young people are not as likely to be DIY types as their parents, and these skills are usually important to be successful cruisers. [1][5] I had to laugh at that. Sadly, this lack of DIY skill (and interest) rings true for my millennial kids. (Ok, small sample size)
Here are some better people-stats...
In the 1970s, there were 12M people in North America who sailed at least once per year. [3] Now the number is barely 1/3 of that, and unchanged for the last decade in spite of population growing 7%. The number of “core” sailors (8+ sails/yr) is declining each year. It seems that aging baby boomers are turning to power boats and millennials are finding other things to do altogether. [3]
But hold on. This recent assessment of younger people without time for sailing sounds oddly similar to a 25 year old LA Times article from 1992, lamenting the “growing indifference by time-pressed yuppies to the rigorous sport of sailing “. [7] (remember the dreaded “yuppies”?) This trend must not be a recent one, after all. Just replace “yuppie” with “millennial”.

I think the sailboat market downward forces are nuanced, indeed. Articles about the steady sailboat production decline don’t usually mention the fact that those glory decades of sailing late last century leave modern purchasers with a huge number of old (but floating) used boats to choose from.
Whatever the reasons, the downward trend in sailboat manufacturing seems like it is continuing. Another study from 2016 separated the 30’-59’sailboat market (cruiser size) from the much greater <20’ hull numbers for North America. Adding up imports and domestic production totaled less than 500 boats for 2015 vs 1600 boats in 2008. Graph attached. [6]

Perhaps we are now in the Glory Days of USED cruising sailboats.
One wonders, though: Where is the bottom of the sailboat production curve, trending downward for three decades?
A dying breed?


[1] http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-207626.html
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_Yachts
[3] https://www.sun-sentinel.com/busines...217-story.html
[4] https://boatingindustry.com/top-stor...ating-history/
[5] https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017...ying-boats.asp
[6] https://www.sailingworld.com/sites/s..._2015_data.pdf
[7] Sales Sinking at Catalina Yachts : Recession: Despite a 35% drop, the Woodland Hills company may be able to ride out the poor economy while other firms founder. - latimes

Mostly I would agree, keeping in mind that a lack of interest (or changing agendas) on the part of 'young' people doesn't have to mean a lack of ability.
As a veteran that had it pretty easy in the Air Force, I have a lot of veteran friends, including many former Vietnam Marines. Their frequent grumbling about the 'worthless, video-game addicted' younger generation does get tiresome, and I'm frequently forced to remind them that it was YOUNG Navy SEALS that killed Bin Laden, took the near-impossible shots against Somali pirates, etc. There are plenty of strong, fit, brave and committed young Americans out there, in the Service and elsewhere in our society. Why they don't want to go cruising is anybody's guess.
As for boats, I love my 40 year old 'cruiser' with its tiller, outboard rudder and cutaway full keel.
I wouldn't have a new sailboat if I won the lottery. Ok, maybe not entirely true (the Boreal 44 looks pretty sweet...) but space age materials and light weight combined with the constant push for 'performance' are a detriment as far as I'm concerned.
Boat builders, like young people do have different agendas and interests today, sure enough. Maybe in 30 years, as the slide into middle age, they'll be buying up those 'old' Boreal 44's, and sailing away.

[kzmike]

I would like to think that government regulation hasn't destroyed cruising as it has general aviation, that coming from a 46 year veteran of that industry. I think in a way, it has but not on the federal side except for costs of materials and equipment used in sailboat construction. I believe too much power has been handed to local governments, as in the case of Florida cities being able to restrict anchorages. Both public and private marinas have exorbitant fees for dockage etc. and that keeps many away. You really don't get much for 300 to 500 bucks a month do ya? The marinas I have used really don't even do adequate maintenance. Pretty big turn off for a lady to have to use the men's room for over a year because they wouldn't fix the toilet in the ladies room.

Other issues are, excessive costs in keeping the boat in order, bad advice given by self-appointed "experts", and the fear of newbies that they will not be able to learn the operation of a sailboat for long-distance trips. Not bashing, but young people today have grown up with a "safety" culture that has stifled almost every fun thing that was ever invented. Safety is essential but should not be the sole driving force in your life...if it is, you will end up sitting on the couch watching football and die of a heart attack at 55.

Another issue I have seen is the push in sailing organizations for racing which does teach some boat handling skills. That is fine if you are into it but a cruiser needs to have a solid base of knowledge of weather, currents, and navigation that going around the buoys seldom gives you. Cruisers need to be plotters and planners and always have an exit strategy if things don't go as planned. Most local sailing organizations don't have education programs for this nor experienced people to instruct in that area. Where does a young person go? To the internet of course, with books as a backup, and good advice on the internet is few and far between I have noticed or is regional at best. The best thing we can do is temper our biases against many things such as certain boats, and provide clear and responsible advice to those who ask.

I really don't have a solution, just an idea of the problems.

[LeeV]

When I taught school I would take students on charters to the BVI every couple of years. Small rural school, with limited opportunity for world travel. I'd teach the basics of sailing, introduce them to a different culture, a different lifestyle, and different geography.

I retired from teaching, but have spoken to quite a few 20-30 yr olds. The most common reason given is cost. They're struggling with loans, housing costs, etc... and can't afford to buy, store, repair, insure, travel to, well, you get the point.

It's always been a sport for the wealthy, and those of us who aren't have worked hard to get to the point where we could engage in the sport at some level. I think I sometimes forget how things were when I was 25! I couldn't afford a class, let alone a boat.

[MartinR]

I think the decline in new buildings is due to the fact that the early manufacturers did not understand that a product needs to have a limited life span, something car manufacturers were very good at in the 60s and 70s. If the boat companies just would have looked a little how the auto companies designed self-deterioration into their products, we would not have loads of nice old boats today and the market would be flourishing.....

[flyingw]

Originally Posted by kzmike

I would like to think that government regulation hasn't destroyed cruising as it has general aviation, that coming from a 46 year veteran of that industry. I think in a way, it has but not on the federal side except for costs of materials and equipment used in sailboat construction. I believe too much power has been handed to local governments, as in the case of Florida cities being able to restrict anchorages. Both public and private marinas have exorbitant fees for dockage etc. and that keeps many away. You really don't get much for 300 to 500 bucks a month do ya? The marinas I have used really don't even do adequate maintenance. Pretty big turn off for a lady to have to use the men's room for over a year because they wouldn't fix the toilet in the ladies room.

Other issues are, excessive costs in keeping the boat in order, bad advice given by self-appointed "experts", and the fear of newbies that they will not be able to learn the operation of a sailboat for long-distance trips. Not bashing, but young people today have grown up with a "safety" culture that has stifled almost every fun thing that was ever invented. Safety is essential but should not be the sole driving force in your life...if it is, you will end up sitting on the couch watching football and die of a heart attack at 55.

Another issue I have seen is the push in sailing organizations for racing which does teach some boat handling skills. That is fine if you are into it but a cruiser needs to have a solid base of knowledge of weather, currents, and navigation that going around the buoys seldom gives you. Cruisers need to be plotters and planners and always have an exit strategy if things don't go as planned. Most local sailing organizations don't have education programs for this nor experienced people to instruct in that area. Where does a young person go? To the internet of course, with books as a backup, and good advice on the internet is few and far between I have noticed or is regional at best. The best thing we can do is temper our biases against many things such as certain boats, and provide clear and responsible advice to those who ask.

I really don't have a solution, just an idea of the problems.

I think the popularity of the 60s-90s drove the regulation and pricing both in aviation and boating which produced much higher entry prices and very limited (and expensive) access (hangars, marinas, etc). By the 90s any prospective participant faced an insurmountable or at least dissuading financial hurdle just to start, and so now an entire generation of people have gone missing. Just my $.02 from observation and somewhat personal experience.

[CharlesV]

I dont know the answer. Sailing is money, time, skill and most of all, commitment. The generation coming up now doesnt have any of those things. Day sail, yes; a week sail, sure why not; buying?? Hmm.

Aside from tastes changing and sailing not fitting into internet time, when sailing was much stronger there was less competition for your attention. People can spend an entire day on facebook and not pay it any mind, whereas sailing is "will we be home soon? i havent been on facebook in four days!!"

In 1965, our family friends, having absolutely none of what we have now, sold their house, bought a boat and sailed the world for the next seven years. Such people are todays oddballs and how many are there out there? The normal person, the bulk of the masses, is the facebook addict who cant spell the word sail. For sailing to thrive, there would be more people returning to the normality of 1965 and those pages have already been turned. People arrogantly think they havent been changed by tech and net and are still the same as ever but look at their actions--oh yes they have.