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El Pinguino · 06-11-2018, 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juho

They are so used to being cold.

I dream of sailing one day to the Patagonia, and Alaska too.

The big change came after 2008.... it took a few years but the anglophones simply vanished.... maybe something to do with the way different countries were affected by the GFM...

Finnish boat berthed next to us at the moment - Sarema - has done both the NW Passage and the NE Passage... heading for Antarctica and S Georgia now.... couple are +/- 70....... yes I think they like cold..

saltfree · 06-11-2018, 03:46

I’m 42 years old. Not a millennial, but in my opinion, much younger than the average cruiser. I firmly believe that the demands of today’s new boat buyers are creating boats that will not last, and that I, as a “sea-worthy”/durability minded boat buyer, will NEVER be interested in. I don’t want to sail an IKEA showroom. That said, I also believe that finding well-maintained older, cruising-minded boats (especially Bluewater) IS getting much more difficult.
As for “The Millenials”... well, I definitely don’t relate to many of the mindsets and values; however, most of them ARE really still “kids”, that like millions of “hippies, yuppies, etc” will mature and evolve their values over time. Perhaps many that grew up sailing with their parents as cruising kids will eventually mature into cruising adults, and will then develop that DIY mentality out of necessity, just like the rest of us have.

**boatman61** · 06-11-2018, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltfree

I’m 42 years old. Not a millennial, but in my opinion, much younger than the average cruiser. I firmly believe that the demands of today’s new boat buyers are creating boats that will not last, and that I, as a “sea-worthy”/durability minded boat buyer, will NEVER be interested in. I don’t want to sail an IKEA showroom. That said, I also believe that finding well-maintained older, cruising-minded boats (especially Bluewater) IS getting much more difficult.
As for “The Millenials”... well, I definitely don’t relate to many of the mindsets and values; however, most of them ARE really still “kids”, that like millions of “hippies, yuppies, etc” will mature and evolve their values over time. Perhaps many that grew up sailing with their parents as cruising kids will eventually mature into cruising adults, and will then develop that DIY mentality out of necessity, just like the rest of us have.

B23iL23 · 06-11-2018, 04:10

So I'm in my 50's, getting back into sailing/cruising after a long absence. Last boat was a 40' footer, next year it will be a 60 footer. While I'm not a millennial, I DO want a boat to be like an Ikea showroom. I'm not a traditionalist or yearn for the past - I want the boat to be like the house I would have if I didn't buy the boat.

I don't think boats need to be like caves down below, dark and uninviting. I want bright, open space, big windows - I've used the phrase before that cruisers spend 95% of their time upright, at anchor/mooring so the boat needs to address and reflect these needs. I wouldn't have hardship if I bought a house, so why should I have to endure hardship when on the boat. It's going to be my home and I want lots of hot water, lots of dimming lights, A/C and the toys that make life easier.

I know many people on this forum love the old boats, tradition and "roughing" it because that's what cruisers have always done, but that's not me.

Juho · 06-11-2018, 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The big change came after 2008.... it took a few years but the anglophones simply vanished.... maybe something to do with the way different countries were affected by the GFM...

Finnish boat berthed next to us at the moment - Sarema - has done both the NW Passage and the NE Passage... heading for Antarctica and S Georgia now.... couple are +/- 70....... yes I think they like cold..

They seem to have a nice web page too, although only partly in English. https://www.sarema.fi/

Chotu · 06-11-2018, 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by B23iL23

So I'm in my 50's, getting back into sailing/cruising after a long absence. Last boat was a 40' footer, next year it will be a 60 footer. While I'm not a millennial, I DO want a boat to be like an Ikea showroom. I'm not a traditionalist or yearn for the past - I want the boat to be like the house I would have if I didn't buy the boat.

I don't think boats need to be like caves down below, dark and uninviting. I want bright, open space, big windows - I've used the phrase before that cruisers spend 95% of their time upright, at anchor/mooring so the boat needs to address and reflect these needs. I wouldn't have hardship if I bought a house, so why should I have to endure hardship when on the boat. It's going to be my home and I want lots of hot water, lots of dimming lights, A/C and the toys that make life easier.

I know many people on this forum love the old boats, tradition and "roughing" it because that's what cruisers have always done, but that's not me.

Exactly. You can have both. Why not?

A boat doesn't have to be ugly and uncomfortable to be seaworthy.

There is no need for life on the water to be uncomfortable and a hardship.

You don't need to live in dark, musty, old surroundings. Life on the water can be just as good as in an apartment. Why suffer needlessly?

saltfree · 06-11-2018, 07:56

Different boats for different folks. My goals are world cruising and crossing oceans. Even then I know I’ll be spending 90% of the time at anchor— but I’ll gladly give up that bright airy cabin for some decent handholds when I need them the other 10%.

Chotu · 06-11-2018, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltfree

Different boats for different folks. My goals are world cruising and crossing oceans. Even then I know I’ll be spending 90% of the time at anchor— but I’ll gladly give up that bright airy cabin for some decent handholds when I need them the other 10%.

But you don't have to give up handholds to ha e a world cruising boat to cross oceans in.

Where did anyone come up with these ideas?

It's like the marine head. Holy cow what a stupid invention. We boat folks thin it's ok to have a complicated, stinky set of plumbing that clogs easily with bowls that often require you to have a "toilet knife" handy so you can cut it up and get it to fit down the tiny hole?

How about the holding tank is directly below the head and you use an RV head to gravity drop it in through a huge hole then have your choice of pumping out on deck or overboard? No plumbing except the pump out options. That's what I did. Works perfectly. I'll never have to deal with a marine head again.

Same goes for the entire boat. We are stuck in a bygone era of overly complicated, uncomfortable and ugly things. Those are not a prerequisite to a seaworthy boat.

B23iL23 · 06-11-2018, 08:29

Modern, spacious boats don't have to preclude handholds. I was on a Hanse a month back and counted 8 in the cockpit alone, plus another on the coachroof and on the t-top. Down below that more of the same - even the table had a long handhold on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltfree

Different boats for different folks. My goals are world cruising and crossing oceans. Even then I know I’ll be spending 90% of the time at anchor— but I’ll gladly give up that bright airy cabin for some decent handholds when I need them the other 10%.

mglonnro · 06-11-2018, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltfree

Different boats for different folks. My goals are world cruising and crossing oceans. Even then I know I’ll be spending 90% of the time at anchor— but I’ll gladly give up that bright airy cabin for some decent handholds when I need them the other 10%.

Here's not quite airy enough a cabin but the handholds are nice

Brenta 80DC:

https://youtu.be/GVt9u1V7DpI?t=46

saltfree · 06-11-2018, 08:40

Specifically regarding s heads- yes there are plenty of modern alternatives to the traditional setup. Yours sounds like a good one. Simple is good. If the truly modern demand is for a freshwater, electric flush, then no thank you, not interested, because that is totally opposite to the KISS principle. Maybe in a two-head boat I’d consider having one electric and one manual, but if I can’t fix it myself and at least temporarily get things working with some Rescue Tape and some screws, well then, I guess I’m screwed... (or bucket and chuck it, I suppose).
But, I digress from my main point. I’ve sailed offshore in a beautiful, 2014 Beneteau 49; and a 1982 Kauffman 47. That Kauffman was set up for simplicity and repair ability, she sailed fast and comfortable. The Bene also sailed very fast, and was set up for offshore, but when conditions were less than ideal, things got uncomfortable. We didn’t have to do much beating to Windward (despite the speed, we added two additional days to our passage by rerouting to avoid sailing to Windward through some 35knot forecasted winds).
Which boat would I rather have my family of four crossing an ocean? The Kauffman, no question.
You and I have different philosophies on what makes us happy in a boat, and neither is likely to convince the other to change. Admittedly, I don’t want a 1960’s dark teak cave with no amenities either— all I’m saying is that as boat manufacterers of the “average” boat buyer’s dreams (yes, if money is no object, there are plenty of excellent, modern, fast, and safe Bluewater boats available) crank out a higher percentage of boats marketed at strictly coastal cruisers, then down the road, there will STILL only be ancient 70’s and 80’s designs available for the average Sailor with Bluewater dreams.
For the perfect example of what I mean, just look at the Stevens 47. That was a boat that mostly began its life intended for the Caribbean charter market, but because it was built to a different ethos, it is still (in MY opinion, of course!) and excellent Bluewater platform, especially compared to what is out there now in regards to boats being retired out of charter service.

B23iL23 · 06-11-2018, 08:42

Ok this is scary. I just spent the last 15 minutes looking for that video!

These are a superb idea, in any boat of any age. Look great, can be reached by shorter people and simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Here's not quite airy enough a cabin but the handholds are nice

Brenta 80DC:

https://youtu.be/GVt9u1V7DpI?t=46

saltfree · 06-11-2018, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Here's not quite airy enough a cabin but the handholds are nice

Brenta 80DC:

https://youtu.be/GVt9u1V7DpI?t=46

Like I said, “if money were no object...” 🤣

mglonnro · 06-11-2018, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok this is scary. I just spent the last 15 minutes looking for that video!

These are a superb idea, in any boat of any age. Look great, can be reached by shorter people and simple.

Great minds think alike!