Dutch sailor shot dead in Brazil-(Merged)

[BlueBuddha]

This thread is not worth reading anymore. Between the posts by those who drank the Chavismo kool-aid and think that Venezuela is a democracy (as if "elections" are the only requirement for a democracy) and truly believe that Venezuela is better off today than it was in the 90s.... and those who drank the libertarianism kool-aid and think that nothing short of a tea-party style conservative system could possible work (as if the entire Scandinavian countries with their "horrible" standard of living didn't exist), it is simply impossible to argue with people holding extreme views. Kool-aid makes you blind to facts- but who wants facts when you have beliefs.

Let's just go back to talking about prop walks and sail trim. bb.

[Saleen411]

BTW, I've been in downtown Buenos Aires, downtown Caracas, NYC, Southe Central LA, Chicago south side, etc and I've never been mugged in my life. You are doing something wrong.

Maybe walk some of these areas at night as a blonde woman and see how it goes.

[Island Time O25]

BlueBuddha, Scandinavians had some form of democratic governance beginning back in 9th century. I believe Iceland's Althing parliament is the oldest continuously functioning parliament in the world first convened in 965AD. And even during the height of vikings' maurauding raids they were making their decisions more or less collectively, with everyone's input, even the women folk. So it is not surprising that after 1,000 years of such political experience they have found a way to juggle democracy, economic justice and fair play.

The same cannot be said of most SA societies as they have a long and practically unbroken history of nondemocratic rule, chronyism and disregard for the opiions of the underclasses going back to colonial Spain. And even a democratic country such as Costa Rica can't rise above its 3rd world banana republic status. Never mind about the oligarchic Mexico, Brazil and such.

And US from its colonial times had benefited greatly from England's Magna Carta and subsequent Parliament being in existence for centuries already.

Very few countries in the world short on long term democratic experience (of which free and fair elections are certainly only one aspect) have managed any semblance of democracy. And each nation is entitled only to the government it deserves. No more no less. When Venezuelans, Russians, Arabs, Africans, Chinese, etc. will decide to be under a different type of rule they will build and adopt a different type of political system. Until then they wil have what they have.

[boatman61]

Yeah... we are really lucky in the 1st World...
We got 20yr old minimum wage earners to shoulder the states burden...
BBC News - Real life 'Spider-Man' helps homeless in Birmingham

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

This thread is not worth reading anymore. Between the posts by those who drank the Chavismo kool-aid and think that Venezuela is a democracy (as if "elections" are the only requirement for a democracy) and truly believe that Venezuela is better off today than it was in the 90s.... and those who drank the libertarianism kool-aid and think that nothing short of a tea-party style conservative system could possible work (as if the entire Scandinavian countries with their "horrible" standard of living didn't exist), it is simply impossible to argue with people holding extreme views. Kool-aid makes you blind to facts- but who wants facts when you have beliefs.

Let's just go back to talking about prop walks and sail trim. bb.

I think the "Azul Gautama" told us to shut up...

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yeah... we are really lucky in the 1st World...
We got 20yr old minimum wage earners to shoulder the states burden...
BBC News - Real life 'Spider-Man' helps homeless in Birmingham

What to you expect to happen as our 1st world values for the past 30-40 years are being diluted by the hordes of 3rd world types overwhelming the system? When "Jose the illegal" undercuts the union guy by offering his serivces at $10/hr cash at the HD parking lot what do you expect the 20 year old son of that union guy to be able to afford educationwise? And the ironic part is that the 20 year old is likely to be on the Jose's side politically and philosophically.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

What to you expect to happen as our 1st world values for the past 30-40 years are being diluted by the hordes of 3rd world types overwhelming the system? When "Jose the illegal" undercuts the union guy by offering his serivces at $10/hr cash at the HD parking lot what do you expect the 20 year old son of that union guy to be able to afford educationwise? And the ironic part is that the 20 year old is likely to be on the Jose's side politically and philosophically.

So.. its nothing to do with the miniscule amount of Corprate fat catz n bankers n sold out politicians with golden bonuses and retirement packages for wrecking economies then...
Phew.. what a relief.. I was worried for a moment.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So.. its nothing to do with the miniscule amount of Corprate fat catz n bankers n sold out politicians with golden bonuses and retirement packages for wrecking economies then...
Phew.. what a relief.. I was worried for a moment.

I think they are wrecking economies so that they can implement a new way of running them...

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

This thread is not worth reading anymore. Between the posts by those who drank the Chavismo kool-aid and think that Venezuela is a democracy (as if "elections" are the only requirement for a democracy) and truly believe that Venezuela is better off today than it was in the 90s.... and those who drank the libertarianism kool-aid and think that nothing short of a tea-party style conservative system could possible work (as if the entire Scandinavian countries with their "horrible" standard of living didn't exist), it is simply impossible to argue with people holding extreme views. Kool-aid makes you blind to facts- but who wants facts when you have beliefs.

Let's just go back to talking about prop walks and sail trim. bb.

I like it when my prop walks to the right a little. Not too far but right for sure. If it starts left I do not like it at all..... like now.

About trim. I find that if I am trimmed smartly I get better service from underlings. Gotta watch out for the robbers and all but overall good trim is a nicer way to go.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I think they are wrecking economies so that they can implement a new way of running them...

Ahh well.. as long as they know what they're doing.. hate to think it was just kinda random opportunism..

[dpons]

To finalize my part in this discussion, I live here in SA. For us living here, the last 10 years have been the best in 50 years and that with governments that go from social-democratic center to socialist ma non troppo. It got better not only for the poor, for the rich too. In my yacht club, the boats went during this period from average 25-28 ft to average 45-50 ft. That's several fold in cost.

Some of you insist in demonize SA and put the contrast all the way to 11. The only thing I said is that reality is more nuanced. That is somewhat of a impossibility to accept to those who say that Obama is an islam practitioner with socialist leanings born in Africa, his wife is a chimp and that socialized health care is the end of civilization. I'm won't attempt to cure you of your ills

[boatman61]

Everyone worries about 'Money' to much.. a fictional invention of no real value in itself created by the Robber Barons of ancient times who got pissed off forever having to build new barns and pig sty's to store the taxes.. now they just have IOU's in the ether..
Don't believe me..? WTF dya think devaluation is...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by dpons

To finalize my part in this discussion, I live here in SA. For us living here, the last 10 years have been the best in 50 years and that with governments that go from social-democratic center to socialist ma non troppo. It got better not only for the poor, for the rich too. In my yacht club, the boats went during this period from average 25-28 ft to average 45-50 ft. That's several fold in cost.

Some of you insist in demonize SA and put the contrast all the way to 11. The only thing I said is that reality is more nuanced. That is somewhat of a impossibility to accept to those who say that Obama is an islam practitioner with socialist leanings born in Africa, his wife is a chimp and that socialized health care is the end of civilization. I'm won't attempt to cure you of your ills

When you want to rustle/prod cattle you use a Cowboy..When you want to coddell the masses you use the tooth Fairy..We will All wake from this with a surprise (I hope mine is money!)under our pillows if were All lucky. You probably do know better about whats going on than I in your part of the world.. Most of what I know is from being on the outside of the box looking in , I tell ya" it don't look good from out here".. To balance it out you may observe the same thing about where I live but it is getting better(may be artificial?)and if not look out because when its bad here from my experience its worse everywhere else..Oh yea that gal in Argentina is jacked up on something!!

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I like it when my prop walks to the right a little. Not too far but right for sure. If it starts left I do not like it at all..... like now.

About trim. I find that if I am trimmed smartly I get better service from underlings. Gotta watch out for the robbers and all but overall good trim is a nicer way to go.

I was needing some Therapy,thanks..

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by dpons

To finalize my part in this discussion, I live here in SA. For us living here, the last 10 years have been the best in 50 years and that with governments that go from social-democratic center to socialist ma non troppo. It got better not only for the poor, for the rich too. In my yacht club, the boats went during this period from average 25-28 ft to average 45-50 ft. That's several fold in cost.

Some of you insist in demonize SA and put the contrast all the way to 11. The only thing I said is that reality is more nuanced. That is somewhat of a impossibility to accept to those who say that Obama is an islam practitioner with socialist leanings born in Africa, his wife is a chimp and that socialized health care is the end of civilization. I'm won't attempt to cure you of your ills

I thought he was born in Indonesia!