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Old 22-02-2020, 00:45   #166
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I agree totally with Tarian. The amount of resources which are used to build a new boat (or a car) or almost anything we use up and throw away, is astonishing.

To get an idea, try to imagine you building a boat, THE WHOLE BOAT, from yourself, from scratch. The hull, the sails, the keel, the engine, the radio, everything, and I don't mean buying all these pieces. I mean, I give you the workshop and all the tools and the raw materials, and you make everything, the whole thing. How long would it take you? Actually, we all would recognize that it is impossible. Nobody to could do it. There is an immense amount of human endeavor and resources which go into building a boat, yet we just throw them away. Same with cars.
It is amazingly hard to find any data about this. I think boat manufacturers (among others) should be obliged to publish life cycle data on what they manufacture!

Anyway, here's the one study I did find and they list some estimated data for a (generic?) 40ft sailboat, a motorboat and a RIB.

http://fundacionmar.org/wp-content/u...le_summary.pdf

The sailboat lifetime CO2-equivalent emissions was 45.82 tonnes, of which 14.5 tonnes was allocated to manufacturing + components and 20.5 to actually sailing the boat (the rest to service, mooring, etc).

The Wikipedia article on CO2 emissions per capita says that in 2018 the average US resident produced 16.1 tonnes, Finnish 8.8, Chinese 8.0 ...

So, conclusion 1: From a global warming perspective, the emissions produced from making the boat aren't that amazingly huge, but about the same as a single US resident produces on average each year.

And conclusion 2: A great part of the total emissions comes from using the boat, so significantly reducing that part (as the Cornell boat is designed to do, I suppose) will significantly affect the bigger picture. Cutting the use emissions by 75%, for example, would reduce total lifetime emissions to 30 tonnes, so with about 1/3. (That's equal to 1/3 less "new boats sold", still getting the same number of boats!)

One of most important things, however, is to do what other participants have mentioned several times: improve the recycling of components and materials. Buying second-hand boats is the most efficient way of recycling, recycling raw materials is on the other end of the spectrum.

Here are the recommendations from the paper above:

Quote:
- Improve fuel consumption efficiency during use. It should be done by improving efficiency of boat and engine, but also by training users, as it has been demonstrated that userís behaviour has a huge impact on fuel consumption during use (mainly in sailboats but also for the other boats).
- Increase the amount of recycled materials to manufacture the different components of the boat. This will allow decreasing notably the environmental impact of a boat.
- Foment good environmental practices during maintenance operations and mooring. Maintenance and cleaning operation of a boat have big environmental impacts so that these good practices will contribute to minimize those impacts.
- Enlarge useful life of boats, as important environmental impacts are coming from production of components. In some kind of boats with a shorter life, for instance the RIBs, substitution of the more problematic parts as the float can enlarge boat life and minimize its environmental impact.
- Increase recyclability and reuse of all elements of the boat. Once the boat is at the end of its life, it is recommend to scrap it and to recover all elements when possible. This practice has several environmental impact savings comparing to landfill in the three kinds of boats.
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Old 22-02-2020, 01:27   #167
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mglonnro View Post
It is amazingly hard to find any data about this. I think boat manufacturers (among others) should be obliged to publish life cycle data on what they manufacture!

Anyway, here's the one study I did find and they list some estimated data for a (generic?) 40ft sailboat, a motorboat and a RIB.

http://fundacionmar.org/wp-content/u...le_summary.pdf

The sailboat lifetime CO2-equivalent emissions was 45.82 tonnes, of which 14.5 tonnes was allocated to manufacturing + components and 20.5 to actually sailing the boat (the rest to service, mooring, etc).

The Wikipedia article on CO2 emissions per capita says that in 2018 the average US resident produced 16.1 tonnes, Finnish 8.8, Chinese 8.0 ...

So, conclusion 1: From a global warming perspective, the emissions produced from making the boat aren't that amazingly huge, but about the same as a single US resident produces on average each year.

And conclusion 2: A great part of the total emissions comes from using the boat, so significantly reducing that part (as the Cornell boat is designed to do, I suppose) will significantly affect the bigger picture. Cutting the use emissions by 75%, for example, would reduce total lifetime emissions to 30 tonnes, so with about 1/3. (That's equal to 1/3 less "new boats sold", still getting the same number of boats!)

One of most important things, however, is to do what other participants have mentioned several times: improve the recycling of components and materials. Buying second-hand boats is the most efficient way of recycling, recycling raw materials is on the other end of the spectrum.

Here are the recommendations from the paper above:
Excellent post and thank you for taking the time to put it together.
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Old 22-02-2020, 03:10   #168
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

From an emissions viewpoint getting rid of one large gin palace will have more effect than twenty or thirty average sail boats.

Put a couple of small diesels in her Jimmy and go to work on BANNING THE PIG BOATS.
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Old 06-09-2020, 18:31   #169
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Are there any updates on how this project is actually going?
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Old 06-09-2020, 19:29   #170
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I agree totally with Tarian. The amount of resources which are used to build a new boat (or a car) or almost anything we use up and throw away, is astonishing.

To get an idea, try to imagine you building a boat, THE WHOLE BOAT, from yourself, from scratch. The hull, the sails, the keel, the engine, the radio, everything, and I don't mean buying all these pieces. I mean, I give you the workshop and all the tools and the raw materials, and you make everything, the whole thing. How long would it take you? Actually, we all would recognize that it is impossible. Nobody to could do it. There is an immense amount of human endeavor and resources which go into building a boat, yet we just throw them away. Same with cars.
.
You are right, but you also need to look into how the raw materials are sourced too, not just the effort to convert them into a boat or car. The energy that goes into the aluminium for your mast for example, right down to the ingredients going into your anti-foul. I think the total embodied energy in a yacht would be extremely difficult to calculate but I think you are right, it would probably equate to many, many lifetimes of human labour. The biggest problem I see with boats is that most are made from thermoset composites like fiberglass that are practically impossible to recycle.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:48   #171
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Another great publicity for Outremer, first Vagabond and now Cornell. However they got involved in this project it's great advertising.

Outremer is owned by Grand Large Yachting, just as Garcia Yachts. Jimmy has had a Garcia Exploration 45 built to his specs and has been sailing it for a while, as some of you may know.


https://cornellsailing.com/aventura/about-aventuraiv/
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:50   #172
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Those kinda guyS like Cornell are commercial, sponsor , driven

He got the junk for free...in exchange he promotes it

This is total nonsense.


Jimmy paid around EUR 800.000 for the boat. I know, because he told me personally.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:53   #173
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Originally Posted by earthbm View Post
Are there any updates on how this project is actually going?
https://cornellsailing.com/2020/09/a...ogress-report/

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Old 08-09-2020, 03:58   #174
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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My understanding is that Jimmy is building the boat to take part in a rally. The circumstances prevailing during a rally are far different than those which often prevail for the cruiser where many voyages take place in remote areas without the company of other boats. Jimmy can afford to be without adequate power because he can call upon other participants or the rally organizers for assistance. However the design of the vessel from an available power for contingencies viewpoint is inadequate.
[...]
Hopefully Jimmy is not joining that group of celebrities who sail across oceans on professionally crewed boats with a pack of cheer leaders hanging on the subtleties of every wind shift to induce the rest of us to forgo our sinful use of the dreaded hydrocarbons and is doing it as a challenge to himself.

No, he is going 2-handed with a friend. No other boats.
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Old 08-09-2020, 18:55   #175
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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No, he is going 2-handed with a friend. No other boats.
Exactly... A rally around Cape Horn, going west? Right...
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Old 08-09-2020, 22:48   #176
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Exactly... A rally around Cape Horn, going west? Right...

I wouldn't call a 1-boat trip a "rally"



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Old 27-10-2020, 09:46   #177
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Bon voyage! Live tracker here: https://cornellsailing.com/aventura/...live-tracking/
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Old 27-10-2020, 12:57   #178
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

I admire his goal and am impressed by the modifications. Still, not suitable for long term cruising I think as the system relies on (hydro) regeneration.

His route shows a huge amount of sailing and relatively few and short stops. More typical live-aboard cruising is some sailing and lots of time in anchorages (90/10, 95/5?). The solar capacity doesnít seem enough to maintain living capabilities as well as motoring when spending a couple weeks at a time anchorage? What about wintering over somewhere cloudy?

The same reason many are loathe about spending the money on a Watt&Sea due to the amount of time spent not moving or moving too slowly, also applies to regeneration.

Sailing Uma and others have shown that there are a variety of use cases for all-electric. But Iím not sure that live-aboard cruising on larger boats is one of them.
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Old 27-10-2020, 14:11   #179
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

Watt&Sea is much too expensive for what it produces.
If you look in the Oceanvolt thread, those numbers are much better.
And the mix does it, the O'Kellys have 2kWp PV and a huge battery bank, can live off that without having a genset for days, even if it's not sunny.
If you sail much, regen from the drives helps more, but it doesn't work without a huge battery and much PV...
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Old 27-10-2020, 22:43   #180
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Re: Jimmy Cornell goes Electric, with a Cat

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
I admire his goal and am impressed by the modifications. Still, not suitable for long term cruising I think as the system relies on (hydro) regeneration.

His route shows a huge amount of sailing and relatively few and short stops. More typical live-aboard cruising is some sailing and lots of time in anchorages (90/10, 95/5?). The solar capacity doesnít seem enough to maintain living capabilities as well as motoring when spending a couple weeks at a time anchorage? What about wintering over somewhere cloudy?
Well, as you say, it depends on your style of cruising, and I think one of the points of this project is to inspire people to question their current way of doing things. Mostly with respect to global warming, of course, but using a new way of sailing in a symbolic way..

From their web (my bold):

Quote:
The main reason for choosing a catamaran was the fact that I wanted to be able to complete under sail the entire route I had in mind. Therefore the boat needed to be entirely self-sufficient and for that it had to satisfy four essential criteria.
  • A potentially fast boat under sail.
  • A boat that has sufficient surface available to display solar panels.
  • A crew with the right attitude and mindset: capable and prepared to sail whenever there is wind and be patient to wait when there isnít.
  • Following from that Ė and this is perhaps the most important factor Ė to accept that we now live in a world and a time when we must be ready to change our ways, from what we eat, how we live, how we travel; and certainly how we sail.
I'm fascinated by electric propulsion (and a couple of friends have the Oceanvolt system here in Finland) and a zero-emission boat. I have to ask them how they have solved the heating challenge. I'm not at all fascinated by sleeping in a cold boat.
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