Tunisia 37 tourists murdered on beach near marina

[scuba0_1]

When it becomes easier to take a free hand out then to work for it you don't get the chance to see how hard work is thus you don't strive to be more and you stay poor.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[DeepFrz]

I wouldn't walk in Baltimore late in the evening either. But in Baltimore you might just get robbed and jacked up a little. You probably wouldn't get your head cut off with a dull pocket knife and posted on Youtube with some ISIS message or Alquida slogan. So, don't equate apples to oranges. These radicalized men and women don't think like you or I do and wouldn't hesitate for a second to gut you like a pig.

You don't think that the Bush family dynasty indiscriminately throwing bombs at so many people in Iraq and Afghanistan could have anything to do with the hatred? Dick Cheney said a week or so ago that he had no regrets for what he did. Do you think that comforts the Muslim people caught up in this furor. I think the US and GB along with Canada and the other NATO countries that have participated in the slaughter of so many people need to stand up on their hind legs and take responsibility for what they have done. The two Iraq wars and Afghanistan in particular have ignited an inferno of hatred. It will likely be with us for a long, long time and will result in a further huge number of people dying. The suffering is immense.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Yes, I remember those eyes of hate. Although the eyes I remember were a white woman's eyes and I had accidentally taken a seat on the wrong side of the waiting room in the bus depot of Biloxi MS. Was a few years back though. I didn't know what was going on until I read the book "Black Like Me".

How did that old white guy get in your avatar pic?

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by alansmith

These radicalized men and women don't think like you or I do and wouldn't hesitate for a second to gut you like a pig.

Just like the crazy gun toting, bible bashing, flag waving American wouldn't hesitate to open up on a pile of innocents with a gun or blow up a building (Oklahoma) but thankfully they are a very small minority, as are the radicalized Muslims.
I wouldn't be tarring all muslims with the same brush that's for sure.

One gets labelled a terrorist
One gets labelled a "Good ol' Girl"

Both look the same to me and knowing a bit about the Muslim faith and Christianity I would probably be more worried about the chick on the left.

[alansmith]

Well, almost time for bed. This has been an interesting thread, nonetheless, I would have to say that much of this problem began thousand of years ago between the three great religions that believe in the same God. How is it that after world war II they could make a nation state carved out of the Palestinian land? I am baffled that such a decision was allowed by the powers that be. There are thousands of years of enmity between them.

I agree with one poster deeply that our "boots on the ground" during the Kuwait invasion by Saddam has led to a deeper involvement. I remember riding an over night train from St Petersburg to Moscow in 2000. My wife was able to translate a long discussion of Russia and American's involvement in the middle east and other Muslim countries. It was an eye opener for me. There were 6 of us in the sleeper car. It came down to this..they believe we were there for the oil. Simple as that.

Parmenter I really do understand what you are saying about painting all Muslims with the same brush. I have carefully worded what I said to make sure it is "totally understood" that I do not perceive Muslims to be the same. I have made it even cleanly understood that this problem lies with radicalized young people who believe that if you are not Muslim you are nothing more than a piece of meat. You won't see the bible bashing girl with AR rifle go into a WalMart in Arkansas and gut a Muslim mother with a long blade while her children wait for her outside the restroom. You won't see Baptist college kids from Alabama U take 6 other Presbyterian college students from Florida State, place them in a steel cage and drown them in pool and then post it on public forums.

These radicalized youth are even being told by senior Al Quida leaders that they have gone too far in their persecutions. ***** against Sunni is a long winded story in itself. Christian against Christian. Budhist against Muslim. It is just a forever story.

If you don't get my only point ...then you don't get it. I will say it one more time...It is not about Muslim people. I have no problem with any race, religion, or region of our planet. But to go to places in Baltimore, East LA, Harlem, or areas where there is a strong presence of people who actively would like to make a newsreel about you is just plain stupid. Life is just too short to lose it when you know well that it is a dicey proposition at best to go there.

Do you realize that police men, paramedics, and government services in Paris do not even attempt to go into about a third of the city. Sharia is in full operation there? The Minister of the French Interior has stated that it is close to civil war for them. This problem is not just American, French, or English. The Chinese and Russians deal with it every day also. Philippines and Indonesia are up to their necks in it also. Plenty of news items every year of it. So, it is a war of attrition and I do not believe for a second that it can be won with drones, or boots on the ground. I do not have a solution for it and the best minds in the world have tried to solve it.

But if you feel inclined to take a through Somali, Yemen, Iraq danesh territory I will pray that your guardian angel will help you make it out alive.

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by alansmith

You won't see the bible bashing girl with AR rifle go into a WalMart in Arkansas and gut a Muslim mother with a long blade while her children wait for her outside the restroom. You won't see Baptist college kids from Alabama U take 6 other Presbyterian college students from Florida State, place them in a steel cage and drown them in pool and then post it on public forums.

But you will see the bible bashing girl and the hating redneck american kill people none the less with guns, knives and bombs letting people bleed out out slowly but surely and dying a horrible death and please dont say it doesn't happen.

Why have you chosen to demonise the muslim in particular by choosing the most graphic death possible and portraying it as the norm?
All you are doing is instilling fear and hatred in many.
It is a method used by the MSM and Govt's alike and is pretty poor form in my opinion.

[Group9]

It sounds like it was for the best that we split up in 1776.

[alansmith]

Paramenter you seem to have some sort of disconnect with what is written and what is meant. I am not demonizing Muslim people at all. 99 percent of them are just like any other race or religion.

You seem to want to "go there" about portraying my remarks in such a way. To say there is not danger for travelers in Al Quida or Danesh controlled areas for foreigners is just plain false. To paint it any other way is just some sort of breech of responsibility in the written word. That is all I have said.

Thanks for your time. Off to work.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Well, almost time for bed. This has been an interesting thread, nonetheless, I would have to say that much of this problem began thousand of years ago between the three great religions that believe in the same God. How is it that after world war II they could make a nation state carved out of the Palestinian land? I am baffled that such a decision was allowed by the powers that be. There are thousands of years of enmity between them.

I agree with one poster deeply that our "boots on the ground" during the Kuwait invasion by Saddam has led to a deeper involvement. I remember riding an over night train from St Petersburg to Moscow in 2000. My wife was able to translate a long discussion of Russia and American's involvement in the middle east and other Muslim countries. It was an eye opener for me. There were 6 of us in the sleeper car. It came down to this..they believe we were there for the oil. Simple as that.

Parmenter I really do understand what you are saying about painting all Muslims with the same brush. I have carefully worded what I said to make sure it is "totally understood" that I do not perceive Muslims to be the same. I have made it even cleanly understood that this problem lies with radicalized young people who believe that if you are not Muslim you are nothing more than a piece of meat. You won't see the bible bashing girl with AR rifle go into a WalMart in Arkansas and gut a Muslim mother with a long blade while her children wait for her outside the restroom. You won't see Baptist college kids from Alabama U take 6 other Presbyterian college students from Florida State, place them in a steel cage and drown them in pool and then post it on public forums.

These radicalized youth are even being told by senior Al Quida leaders that they have gone too far in their persecutions. ***** against Sunni is a long winded story in itself. Christian against Christian. Budhist against Muslim. It is just a forever story.

If you don't get my only point ...then you don't get it. I will say it one more time...It is not about Muslim people. I have no problem with any race, religion, or region of our planet. But to go to places in Baltimore, East LA, Harlem, or areas where there is a strong presence of people who actively would like to make a newsreel about you is just plain stupid. Life is just too short to lose it when you know well that it is a dicey proposition at best to go there.

Do you realize that police men, paramedics, and government services in Paris do not even attempt to go into about a third of the city. Sharia is in full operation there? The Minister of the French Interior has stated that it is close to civil war for them. This problem is not just American, French, or English. The Chinese and Russians deal with it every day also. Philippines and Indonesia are up to their necks in it also. Plenty of news items every year of it. So, it is a war of attrition and I do not believe for a second that it can be won with drones, or boots on the ground. I do not have a solution for it and the best minds in the world have tried to solve it.

But if you feel inclined to take a through Somali, Yemen, Iraq danesh territory I will pray that your guardian angel will help you make it out alive.

"thousands of years" that cant be because Islam has only been around for about 1400 yrs if I am not mistaken...

[donradcliffe]

As long as we have let this thread drift, none of you have come up with the basic reason for all the hatred and killing.

Just watch this for a minute and see why

Population Clock

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

As long as we have let this thread drift, none of you have come up with the basic reason for all the hatred and killing.

Just watch this for a minute and see why

Population Clock

The reason for the hatred and killing is that man invented god after god invented man (or the reverse) and until everyone gets over themselves or at least the faith that they have in something that they cant prove it will continue..So the reason is that man has this very distructive thing called " Faith" that he cant see beyond, and until that time comes we are doomed to repeat this cycle of faith based hate for time immemorial..To borrow from CF member and fellow sailors BobandConnie thats,"just my two cents worth"..

[Group9]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

As long as we have let this thread drift, none of you have come up with the basic reason for all the hatred and killing.

Just watch this for a minute and see why

Population Clock

I imagine we all have our opinions on why the human race has so many people who so easily rob, rape, attack and kill other humans, but I'm betting it would be hard to get a consensus.

I was employed in law enforcement for a long time (my entire adult life until retirement). I've interviewed literally thousands of criminals, everything from petty thieves to serial killers. And, my take is, you have a certain percentage of the human race who are sociopaths/psychopaths/anti-social personality disorder/narcissistic personality disorder/borderline personality disorder, etc.. The only limits on their behavior, are what other people put on them, because they are not capable of putting any limits on themselves. They have no empathy for anyone. The only thing that stops them from engaging in criminal behavior is fear of getting caught and punished, or them actually getting caught and locked up.

Try and think about it this way. When you squish an ant crawling across your counter, how much empathy do you feel for the ant? Well, that's what sociopaths feel for their fellow human beings-- nothing.

But, while not having any empathy for anyone else, they realize that the rest of the human race expects it, and they learn to do a good job of faking it when necessary or beneficial to them in some way. But, it's not real.

The FBI, who have as much credibility as anyone when it comes to crime, I guess, estimates that over 90 per cent of the crimes committed in this country, are committed by sociopaths/psychopaths/anti-social personality disorder/narcissistic personality disorder/borderline personality disorder, etc., and their whole concept of enforcement and investigation, is based on that notion.

I was skeptical of that idea when it was first introduced to me, but my life experience has pretty much confirmed it since then.

[captain58sailin]

Thank you for that insight, I would just call them evil.

[rognvald]

Man is tribal by nature. It is hardwired into our genes. Whether consciously or unconsciously, we prefer to be with our own kind. It is a hard-fast rule in the animal world. It is ,as well, in our own. In general, it is easier to kill those outside our group than it is to kill a member of our group. This has been the nature of warfare.
The problem we face in the Middle East is unsolvable with the current strategies. We(The US) utilize a form of "policing" that will never solve the problem and creates a lasting hatred among those countries that are occupied. We erred in Korea, VietNam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. We fought wars with no intention to win but to subdue. And, even if we fought them to win, the outcomes would still be failures since the occupation of countries thousands of miles distant is absurdity at its best. This is how in our own history we beat Mother England.
Terrorism is an unbeatable adversary. It doesn't need an army, it doesn't need support of the people, it does not have to be fair, and can be effective with a handful of people capable of doing great harm to entire countries. I have given much thought to this subject and believe the following would be effective in turning the tide although this black mark will take decades to erase:
1.) complete evacuation of US forces in the Middle East. Allow them to
determine their own fate whether good or bad.
2.) cut off all aid to Israel. They have been the biggest recipient
of US aid since 1949-- $121 billion and currently receive 3.1 billion
a year in military aid by 2014 totals. We currently have a 18 trillion
dollar national debt. They are one of the prime reasons that the
Arab world conducts terrorism against its supporters.
3.) Allow the Palestinians to have a national homeland based upon
the parameters drawn after WWII.
4.) Allow the Jewish state to maintain its historic borders given to them
after WWII.
5.) Develop US oil, solar and alternative energies so that we no longer
need Arab oil.
6.) Serve as a friend and arbitrator not a financier to those in trouble
around the world
7.) Embrace the tenets of the Monroe Doctrine where we maintain
interest and concern within our Western Hemisphere. Allow other
parts of the world to do the same.
8.) end all foreign aid until we have a balanced budget and then create
a budget surplus.
9.) Do as families do: help your children before you help others
The current strategy does not work. The US has been plagued with decades of idiots in our presidency who were clearly incapable of governing to the benefit of the American people. There's a new group of bubbleheads on the horizon. You want to stop terrorism? It starts at your front door.

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Paramenter you seem to have some sort of disconnect with what is written and what is meant. I am not demonizing Muslim people at all.

Yet you clearly describe the atrocities done by extremist Muslims and gloss over the atrocities that have been done by the Americans in their own country and their military in others.
Why is that?

As Michael Moore said the other day

One proud White American, in less than 2 minutes, has killed TWICE as many Americans as ISIS has in 2 years. White Terrorists. #WISIS.

— Michael Moore (@MMFlint) June 19, 2015

Originally Posted by alansmith
99 percent of them are just like any other race or religion.

So in your opinion 1 in 100 is a killer?
Have you anything to support that claim of such high numbers?

You seem to want to "go there" about portraying my remarks in such a way. To say there is not danger for travelers in Al Quida or Danesh controlled areas for foreigners is just plain false.

Where did I say that?
Please point to the line where I said or even suggested that going to an Al Quida or Danesh controlled area is a safe thing to do.
For the record, I would consider that an foolhardy thing to do.

To paint it any other way is just some sort of breech of responsibility in the written word.

I agree

That is all I have said.

Perhaps that is your intention but words on the internet and language barriers often have people seeing different things.