Tunisia 37 tourists murdered on beach near marina

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Cottontop, I do not view Muslim people as having chilly deadly eyes. I understand your sarcasm. I do not know what your experiences are with military service or travelling deep into Muslim areas where there is real hatred of the western people.


Ask any person who has done military service and been stationed in Islamic nations and they will tell you about the young men's eyes upon you. When I visited Urumqi 2 years ago the Han Chinese were in constant conflict with Muslim Uyghur people. I am sure you have heard of the some of the massacres in train stations and police stations of young Muslim men with long knives butchering people. I am not choosing sides here. Urumqi is far west China and is in the Xinjiang Province. Look it up.


When you can not walk outside at night you get the picture in a hurry. In late afternoons while walking through beautiful parks is when I had my experience on several days. I am a peaceful and friendly person with everyone. But I am not blind to what I saw or felt. Even my lady friend said it is not safe here for western people these days.


Maybe I misinterpreted your statement as sarcasm. But it is your option to say what you like. I know what I saw and if it came across as labeling all Muslims in such a way it was poorly stated by me. I will simply state again that young Muslim men who have been radicalized into a hatred of foreign people on their soil is a real thing. It is not to be taken as a trivial thing.


Was it not just a month or so ago that a Muslim woman in a hajib walked into a restroom in Abu Dhabi and stabbed an American mother/teacher to death just because she was western. You think that is worth a trivialized comment/sacrcasm that radicalized Muslims are full of hatred for western people.

Well, if the Uyghurs are killing the Chinese, sounds like they don't like other Asians much, either. And thus the point of my sarcasm. There are a lot of suggestions that what's going on is somehow uniquely Muslim. It's not. Some white guy in the US just murdered a number of black people in a church. I don't know if he had chilly deadly Christian eyes. It's simply a part of the human condition to fear and resent the other, something we all have to resist and none of us should forget.

And it's not even uniquely human. Red birds and blue birds don't get along.

[sergiofil]

I have to agree and congrat with Sarayu with his great post. Great majority of North African are totally open minded and willing to deal with the westerners and in a globalized world. Tunisia has been hit because closer to a fail state (Libya) and maybe the most open in the area.
We definitely cannot leave alone the tunisian people in their fight. I hope that their marinas and resorts will be full again before the season ends.
By the way the worst attack to european tourists (and by far) was the one done by a german copilot on the germanwings aircraft. He also was a criminal psycopath and he fooled a big western safety and security organization. Should we stop flying german crew aircraft?
Fair winds to all

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Great post Sarau, but I don't agree with one point:



Reporting 37 murdured is not sensationalism.

It is when in other parts of the world hundreds could die in a mudslide , building collapse (add your own disaster) and it would hardly rate a mention because they are not white tourists.

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Was it not just a month or so ago that a Muslim woman in a hajib walked into a restroom in Abu Dhabi and stabbed an American mother/teacher to death just because she was western. You think that is worth a trivialized comment/sacrcasm that radicalized Muslims are full of hatred for western people.

Was it not just a week or so ago that some pimply faced american walked into a church and gunned down nine innocent worshipers?

Should I be scared of every American that walks the streets?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Parmenter

Was it not just a week or so ago that some pimply faced american walked into a church and gunned down nine innocent worshipers?

Should I be scared of every American that walks the streets?

No need to be afraid. Once they get rid of those nasty guns which I think the President is working on, it will be a great country to sail over to and visit.

[captain58sailin]

Funny, I have worked and lived in different African countries and gun ownership there was illegal and yet many people were killed by AK-47s and the like, wielded by criminals and terrorists.

[scuba0_1]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Funny, I have worked and lived in different African countries and gun ownership there was illegal and yet many people were killed by AK-47s and the like, wielded by criminals and terrorists.

Quote
so outlawed guns can still be gotten by criminals. And here I thought, not allowed to have then ment everyone followed the law and didn't use them. Who would have thought...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Cottontop, I do not view Muslim people as having chilly deadly eyes. I understand your sarcasm. I do not know what your experiences are with military service or travelling deep into Muslim areas where there is real hatred of the western people.


Ask any person who has done military service and been stationed in Islamic nations and they will tell you about the young men's eyes upon you. When I visited Urumqi 2 years ago the Han Chinese were in constant conflict with Muslim Uyghur people. I am sure you have heard of the some of the massacres in train stations and police stations of young Muslim men with long knives butchering people. I am not choosing sides here. Urumqi is far west China and is in the Xinjiang Province. Look it up.


When you can not walk outside at night you get the picture in a hurry. In late afternoons while walking through beautiful parks is when I had my experience on several days. I am a peaceful and friendly person with everyone. But I am not blind to what I saw or felt. Even my lady friend said it is not safe here for western people these days.


Maybe I misinterpreted your statement as sarcasm. But it is your option to say what you like. I know what I saw and if it came across as labeling all Muslims in such a way it was poorly stated by me. I will simply state again that young Muslim men who have been radicalized into a hatred of foreign people on their soil is a real thing. It is not to be taken as a trivial thing.


Was it not just a month or so ago that a Muslim woman in a hajib walked into a restroom in Abu Dhabi and stabbed an American mother/teacher to death just because she was western. You think that is worth a trivialized comment/sacrcasm that radicalized Muslims are full of hatred for western people.

You are correct there are people who hate us and always have ..We are now going to try a new way of doing things, lets see how they like that..What is going on is not terror it is unconventional warfare,Putin is not the only one playing it either...What has been going on since Desert Storm is the implementation of Mr.Bushs vision of a "New World Order" and it is going to take a while to see it thru..What we see in the Middle East /North Africa is the coughing and sputtering of a dying way of life,a death that sadly some think requires fantastic sacrifice..Hopefully there wont be many more that are willing to pay the "final price" to try and keep it a live..make no mistake about it, we are at war !

[Parmenter]

Originally Posted by alansmith

I do not know what your experiences are with military service or travelling deep into Muslim areas where there is real hatred of the western people.

Ask any person who has done military service and been stationed in Islamic nations and they will tell you about the young men's eyes upon you.

Wouldn't have anything to do with the uniforms and big guns would it?

Put yourself in their position in your home country and honestly tell us how you would feel with a foreign force dropping bombs and driving the streets in armoured vehicles.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Pete7

No need to be afraid. Once they get rid of those nasty guns which I think the President is working on, it will be a great country to sail over to and visit.

He's been getting rid of a lot of things here that foreigners don't like about us. The thriving middle class for one.

[alansmith]

As Parmenter and Cottontop stated about the massacre of innocent black church people in Georgia (?) recently...it can happen everywhere and at anytime. I concede that point.


I work with Muslims in my hospital and they are just like everyone else there. My personal dentist is a Muslim woman. This thing going on in the middle east is just one hot bed. The IRA battles in Belfast were the hatred of one group of people against another. If you were a protestant English soldier and walked into a catholic pub in Ulster....kiss your you know what goodbye. That is what I am saying here. That is all I am saying here. You don't go into the lion's den and expect that you won't be devoured.


The massacre of black church bible study group in Georgia is one crazy person who hates black people. That has happened all over the world for as long as I have been reading news. It is not related to race, religion, or region. People killing one another over hatred or perceived injustices goes all the way back to Cain and Abel.
We are not talking about individuals or an individual here. We are talking about an idealogy of radicalized people who have clearly stated for anyone to hear. Foreigners are not to step foot on Islamic soil. Nation states are not saying this. Clearly, radical groups are not main stream elements of Muslim nations. KKK were notorious for lynchings and brutal murders. If you were a black man you would not dare walk down the street with a white woman back in that era.


So, please do not perceive this to be a rant about Muslims or countries. I was raised a navy brat and was always a minority wherever I lived. The only thing I am saying is that going into areas of the world where there is a clear intent or message to harm people is just a risk that has to be closely evaluated.


For example, I am dying to go to Istanbul and see the Blue Mosque and the Sultan's museums. I think Turkey is still safe enough for foreigners. But there is some risk involved because of current state of affairs in middle east. My coworkers just got back from Israel doing the religious tours of biblical sites. Their tour guides said they are getting less than 30 percent of tourist traffic due to perceived hatreds. There were many armed security forces watching everyone like a hawk.


I wouldn't walk in Baltimore late in the evening either. But in Baltimore you might just get robbed and jacked up a little. You probably wouldn't get your head cut off with a dull pocket knife and posted on Youtube with some ISIS message or Alquida slogan. So, don't equate apples to oranges. These radicalized men and women don't think like you or I do and wouldn't hesitate for a second to gut you like a pig.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Group9

He's been getting rid of a lot of things here that foreigners don't like about us. The thriving middle class for one.

Unfortunately your middle class has not been thriving for a very long time, well before the latest President took power. Its a really big problem as America's productivity has skyrocketed at the same time their wages have been lowered. The 1% of the people in your country have most of the money and nothing is in sight to change that.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by alansmith

As Parmenter and Cottontop stated about the massacre of innocent black church people in Georgia (?) recently...it can happen everywhere and at anytime. I concede that point.


I work with Muslims in my hospital and they are just like everyone else there. My personal dentist is a Muslim woman. This thing going on in the middle east is just one hot bed. The IRA battles in Belfast were the hatred of one group of people against another. If you were a protestant English soldier and walked into a catholic pub in Ulster....kiss your you know what goodbye. That is what I am saying here. That is all I am saying here. You don't go into the lion's den and expect that you won't be devoured.


The massacre of black church bible study group in Georgia is one crazy person who hates black people. That has happened all over the world for as long as I have been reading news. It is not related to race, religion, or region. People killing one another over hatred or perceived injustices goes all the way back to Cain and Abel.
We are not talking about individuals or an individual here. We are talking about an idealogy of radicalized people who have clearly stated for anyone to hear. Foreigners are not to step foot on Islamic soil. Nation states are not saying this. Clearly, radical groups are not main stream elements of Muslim nations. KKK were notorious for lynchings and brutal murders. If you were a black man you would not dare walk down the street with a white woman back in that era.


So, please do not perceive this to be a rant about Muslims or countries. I was raised a navy brat and was always a minority wherever I lived. The only thing I am saying is that going into areas of the world where there is a clear intent or message to harm people is just a risk that has to be closely evaluated.


For example, I am dying to go to Istanbul and see the Blue Mosque and the Sultan's museums. I think Turkey is still safe enough for foreigners. But there is some risk involved because of current state of affairs in middle east. My coworkers just got back from Israel doing the religious tours of biblical sites. Their tour guides said they are getting less than 30 percent of tourist traffic due to perceived hatreds. There were many armed security forces watching everyone like a hawk.


I wouldn't walk in Baltimore late in the evening either. But in Baltimore you might just get robbed and jacked up a little. You probably wouldn't get your head cut off with a dull pocket knife and posted on Youtube with some ISIS message or Alquida slogan. So, don't equate apples to oranges. These radicalized men and women don't think like you or I do and wouldn't hesitate for a second to gut you like a pig.

Turkey is indeed a wonderful country to visit although you might avoid the area around Syria.
I would not give any thought to traveling there, its as safe as traveling anywhere right now. Istanbul is such a wonderful city to experience. No matter how big or expensive our cities are none could compare to Istanbul. The history, the food and the culture is just such a cool experience that it shouldn't be missed by those that can afford it. We spent almost a year in Turkey and we are now in the Caribbean but we are talking about leaving the boat again and going back to Turkey for another long visit. Its cheap, its beautiful and the people are wonderful.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Unfortunately your middle class has not been thriving for a very long time, well before the latest President took power. Its a really big problem as America's productivity has skyrocketed at the same time their wages have been lowered. The 1% of the people in your country have most of the money and nothing is in sight to change that.

Well that problem is endemic to the world, not just the US. Our problem is that we don't have enough rich people to tax, ergo we tax the middle class, and reclassify them as "rich".

One of the most exciting times in my life, was the Democratic debates of 2008, when I was pleased to learn, that I was "rich". I had never guessed.

[sergiofil]

It is indeed a global problem, but US, not europe, was a model of social mobility giving the possibility to mid and low class to get richer and now that has stalled a bit. That should be quite a concern
Fair wind to all