Should A Non Eu Boat Sail Across The Atlantic To Sail The Med

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dauntlessny

I'm hoping it does get changed, and if it doesn't, I'm coping.

As many others have said previously, it really only becomes an issue at airports.

And this summer, when I'll be in schengen countries, I won't fly.

Besides, where there is a will, there is a way.
If you don't believe that, how did you manage to cross an ocean.??

Richard on Dauntless in now in Ireland
Kadey Krogen 42'

Also hoping for a change but have a plan for coping when I get there. As you probably noticed, Ireland (and UK) are not part of Schengen so the clock is stopped while you're there. Neither are the Channel Islands and Gibraltar. After that the options are fewer. For now I think Tunisia sounds like the best non-Schengen option until you get to the eastern Med.

Scandinavia could be a little more difficult unless you are able to get some kind of country specific extension.

[chuckr]

As a final update -- We were out of Schengren for over 60 days so we did not reset the clock when we checked back in at Venice and headed to Tunisia with 25 days to make it and the cruising guide says there is not a lot to see on the Italian East Coast. Boy was that wrong but we did keep moving and not sightseeing; bummer. We were also chasing the last of summer sailing season and knew sooner or later the wx was going to change and we needed to get in before we had to sit and wait.
On the way south our alternator finally gave up and we had to get a new one in Brindisi and had to have flown in. Don't ask about the cost of that; ouch. So we really got delayed. Finally got out and decided that we could not see Sciliy because off Schengren time and weather and headed to Malta.
We got stuck there for a week waiting for wx as a mistral came through with winds in excess of 40-50k and seas to match. By now we are over and somewhat over. We finally got out and went to Italy to check out and they did go through our passports very throughly and saw all the stamps and I had to sit and wait for quite a while for them to go through the passports. One officer finally came out and asked our next destination, 3rd time we told them where we were going, and again after a bit of a delay the police came in with our stamped passports.
We had come with our log and documentation on the delays due to repairs and weather if necessary. But they knew the weather and we had discussed the bad weather with them earlier so i think they were aware that we were trying to get out so it made it a bit easier.
Still an issue. We will see what happens next year as we are in Tunisia for the winter and they are glad to have us back.

[EllesBelles]

We plan to sail to the Med with the ARC in May/June, and sail back with the ARC in early November - which we view as the safest way to do the two transAtlantic crossings. This Schengen discussion has been helpful, and we are wondering if other cruisers are looking at summer 2015 and trying to make a loose itinerary of how to make a sail plan. Schengen makes it challenging to figure out how to spend the five months in the Med, and the likelihood that Croatia will become Schengen in July complicates the plan further.

Does anyone have a sail plan they are working on too?

Can anyone confirm that once we check out of a country's C&I the clock goes off, so for instance, if we arrive and check in in Portugal and re-provision and then take off on another long passage all the way east to Turkey before heading west and stopping in Greece, would it be accurate that we would accumulate zero days after checking out of Portugal and until we check in in Greece?

I've even wondered if we could stop near someplace along the way, like Sicily, and come up with some legal loophole to avoid checking in, but reprovision again, such as making arrangements for someone on shore to send out a boat to our sailboat with a delivery of fresh fruits and vegetables. Has anyone explored this idea or tried it?

Has anyone stopped in Morocco and is there anyplace safe and nice they would recommend?

Lastly, Tunisia seems to be a place a lot of cruisers now go to avoid accumulating Schengen days. It hadn't been on our radar before. Can anyone share specifics on favorite places along the coast, marinas, local knowledge to help us plan to stop there too?

Thanks!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by EllesBelles

We plan to sail to the Med with the ARC in May/June, and sail back with the ARC in early November - which we view as the safest way to do the two transAtlantic crossings. This Schengen discussion has been helpful, and we are wondering if other cruisers are looking at summer 2015 and trying to make a loose itinerary of how to make a sail plan. Schengen makes it challenging to figure out how to spend the five months in the Med, and the likelihood that Croatia will become Schengen in July complicates the plan further.

Does anyone have a sail plan they are working on too?

Can anyone confirm that once we check out of a country's C&I the clock goes off, so for instance, if we arrive and check in in Portugal and re-provision and then take off on another long passage all the way east to Turkey before heading west and stopping in Greece, would it be accurate that we would accumulate zero days after checking out of Portugal and until we check in in Greece?

I've even wondered if we could stop near someplace along the way, like Sicily, and come up with some legal loophole to avoid checking in, but reprovision again, such as making arrangements for someone on shore to send out a boat to our sailboat with a delivery of fresh fruits and vegetables. Has anyone explored this idea or tried it?

Has anyone stopped in Morocco and is there anyplace safe and nice they would recommend?

Lastly, Tunisia seems to be a place a lot of cruisers now go to avoid accumulating Schengen days. It hadn't been on our radar before. Can anyone share specifics on favorite places along the coast, marinas, local knowledge to help us plan to stop there too?

Thanks!

I'm sure curious on why you believe that going on the ARC is safer than sailing there on your own??

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by EllesBelles

We plan to sail to the Med with the ARC in May/June, and sail back with the ARC in early November - which we view as the safest way to do the two transAtlantic crossings. This Schengen discussion has been helpful, and we are wondering if other cruisers are looking at summer 2015 and trying to make a loose itinerary of how to make a sail plan. Schengen makes it challenging to figure out how to spend the five months in the Med, and the likelihood that Croatia will become Schengen in July complicates the plan further.

Does anyone have a sail plan they are working on too?

Can anyone confirm that once we check out of a country's C&I the clock goes off, so for instance, if we arrive and check in in Portugal and re-provision and then take off on another long passage all the way east to Turkey before heading west and stopping in Greece, would it be accurate that we would accumulate zero days after checking out of Portugal and until we check in in Greece?

I've even wondered if we could stop near someplace along the way, like Sicily, and come up with some legal loophole to avoid checking in, but reprovision again, such as making arrangements for someone on shore to send out a boat to our sailboat with a delivery of fresh fruits and vegetables. Has anyone explored this idea or tried it?

Has anyone stopped in Morocco and is there anyplace safe and nice they would recommend?

Lastly, Tunisia seems to be a place a lot of cruisers now go to avoid accumulating Schengen days. It hadn't been on our radar before. Can anyone share specifics on favorite places along the coast, marinas, local knowledge to help us plan to stop there too?

Thanks!

Have been researching this question and with a little planning there seems to be an option for non Schengen stops at reasonable intervals.

UK and Ireland for the Atlantic side. Gibraltar entering the Med is non Schengen. From there if you plan on going to the eastern Med it's a bit trickier and Tunisia does seem to be the only good option.

[chuckr]

EllesBelles not sure what you are planning but we sailed over on our own and would never do an arc and not sure what the your reasoning for being safer is.

But when we came over we left May1 and ended up in Horta 21days later. It should have taken us a couple of days less but that is another discussion. We spent a bit of time in the Azores, perhaps too much as we had a great time.

Then we checked out of the EU and sailed to Portugal and checked back in saving days. We did some inland travel in Portugal and then sailed over to Spain and again a bit of inland travel. We then headed over to the Balerica Islands and finally on to Sardinia and we were over by 2 weeks or so and their only question was non Schengren and we said yes and they stamped us out.

If you check in and out of the Azores and sail to Portugal or beyond you should check in when you get to the next port. Not sure what you plan but you may want to check the distances from Gib to Turkey or Greece and back and on to the Canaries if you plan to sail back in the fall.

I guess you plan is just to do a lot of sailing and not visiting as you will have limited time to do that. But you can save days by checking out of the EU for the long sails and back in when you get to where you want to go. But remember the Canary Islands are also Schengren.

[EllesBelles]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I'm sure curious on why you believe that going on the ARC is safer than sailing there on your own??

It's probably not much safer for us to travel with the ARC since we already have all the ARC-required safety equipment and even our own tracker device and weather subscription service. But this is our first transatlantic crossing and we think traveling with other cruisers offers added safety because all the boats have one another to turn to if someone gets in trouble. Also, we went to an ARC World breakfast in Annapolis and enjoyed meeting the staff and other cruisers...they're a knowledgeable and fun group.

[dlymn]

If you get checked by the authorities, they will look for evidence of your entering a non_-EU country such as a visa or stamp in you passport the time in that country will not be counted. Once you enter the Eu, the clock starts until you formally enter a non-EU country.
Check visa requirements to enter countries. Turkey must be done in advance. Albania is a non EU country, but might cost 200 euros to enter and leave. You might have to spend 60 days in non-EU countries and some places are not tourist heaven.
The Med is over 2000 miles wide and so takes some sailing. The winds are not always favorable. Expect to motor for a bit.

[robert sailor]

I think one of the attractions of the ARC is this idea that it is safer but in the real world you are out there by yourself. There is a better than even chance that after the first day you will not see another boat until you are close to arrival. There are boats and ships out there, lots actually so your odds of getting someones attention if your in trouble is probably pretty good whether in a rally or not. Either way I'm sure if you feel safer then its probably a good thing and I hope you have a wonderful trip. The social part is great I'm sure, hell of a price for a party but for many its worth it.

[malaka11]

In Greece you can get a renewable 1 year visa as long as you have €60 000 in your bank account. Gives you the right to live and work in Greece. Turkey too has a similar visa.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[jckb]

Originally Posted by malaka11

Gives you the right to live and work in Greece. Turkey too has a similar visa.

Yes. Be careful here though. This is a complex subject.

A live and work visa usually also makes you an EU resident, and EU "residents" (irrespective of nationality) may only use boats/cars within the EU if they are VAT paid.

France issues a one year visitor's visa to many nationalities, and this is not a residence permit.

[CookiesnTequila]

Hey everyone. We are new to cruisersforums and liveaboard cruising! We are in the process of purchasing a boat that is located in the Med, and plan to move aboard next spring. We plan to spend at least one, maybe two years in the Med/EU regions. We didn't plan it this way, so we've done no research into cruising in the Med or rest of EU for that matter! So this thread has been extremely helpful!!

The boat we are hoping to purchase is currently an EU VAT paid boat. We will reflag it Canadian. Both of us have dual citizenship, Canadian/German, and Canadian/British.

I'm real interested to hear some of your thoughts on our situation. I assume the boat will be free to stay as long as we like? How about us?

[robert sailor]

We are Canadians who did exactly what you are planning, feel free to pm us if you would like to discuss any aspect of your upcoming adventure. Cheers, Robert

[dlymn]

Welcome aboard CookiesnTequila.
The Med is a great place to cruise. Don't expect to sail every day, in fact one cruiser I spoke to said that he had used his engine more in the Med than anywhere else. Every cruising ground in the Med is unique and interesting. It's great to travel a few miles and discover an entirely new culture.

Your broker will deflag the boat as is required by law. You should arrange to have the boat registered in your country even before you go. You need plenty of details about the boat and the HIN number. the current registration will have just about all of this. NB do not throw away any old information; port police ask to see evidence of
VAT payment if it has been paid.
Non EU boats are supposed to have a temporary import permit which is good for 18months and is renewable. So far, after 4 1/2 year of Medness we have yet to be asked for evidence of this. In EU marinas, it's not usual to be asked for any formal documentation except boat insurance (get this before you go sailing).

It's great to be able to move freely between EU countries without passport control getting in the way, although countries like Greece and Italy expect you to pay for a transit log and to manage it. Customs and port police seem to be able to make the simplest task last for hours and all for a few euros.

The popular pilot guides are really quite useful and will become your familiar as you cruise along the coast. I would not recommend going south at least until things have calmed down politically. It seems that the most interesting cruising is in the east past Italy, but every country will provide you with enjoyable adventure. Learning 'the language' can help and is appreciated by the 'locals' . Occasionally I have ended up trying to talk French and the local replying to me in English, repeatedly. You will always find someone who speaks English especially in the marinas.

So Happy Sailing
A bientot
(pm me if you want specific help)

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by CookiesnTequila

The boat we are hoping to purchase is currently an EU VAT paid boat. We will reflag it Canadian. Both of us have dual citizenship, Canadian/German, and Canadian/British.

I'm real interested to hear some of your thoughts on our situation. I assume the boat will be free to stay as long as we like? How about us?

I would seriously suggest keeping the boat flagged in an EU nation and flying the Canadian flag from the shrouds given you both have EU passports/citizenship. As EU nationals you don't have to worry about Schengen restrictions, the boat is already EU VAT paid and with an EU flag it would be a lot easier to sign in and out of EU and Non EU states around the Med.

From what I understand to flag a boat as German you need to pay some kind of "bund" to prove that you will not disgrace the flag if you do not live in German but as a British citizen you should be able to register the boat on the Small Ship Register in London and fly the Red Ensign. Alternatively you could simply keep the vessel on it's current flag if it is an EU state.

Keiron