Buying a boat in Croatia

[Topspin]

Originally Posted by Anders

As long as you don't stay to long in any country you should be fine.
The problem with your plan is that I believe VAT is due when it's sold inside the EU VAT area unless VAT has already been paid. Is this a non EU registered boat?

Thanks Anders,

the boat is a former Charter boat with no VAT paid.

We will cruise at least 5 countries, so no problem with overstaying.

The plan is to immediately ask for TI after the change of flag.



Regards,



-Richard

[Topspin]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

From a practical side, I would enter Europe with the German passport.

You also should bring with you some proof that you're residing in Australia that goes along with your German passport, otherwise you might run into troubles with Mr. Taxman who thinks you're a clever German avoiding taxes.


Just don't move quickly out of Croatia, they really made fleecing cruisers an art-form. France, Italy and Spain are more relaxed, I don't know how Greece is.

Hello Joh(n?),

thanks for that. I am required by law to enter the EU with my German passport, so that is no choice and no visa is necessary.

I will bring some documents (last tax return, some utility receipts and maybe a letter from my tax agent).



I actually do not understand your statement about croatia, but I agree on the "fleecing"! Shouldn´t that be a good reason to leave as soon as possible ?


-Richard

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Topspin

I actually do not understand your statement about croatia, but I agree on the "fleecing"! Shouldn´t that be a good reason to leave as soon as possible ?

Croatia has a tendency in my experience to be very strict at enforcing rules disfavouring cruisers, specially those from abroad. they have no qualms at bending the rules to collect more money because they know many cruisers don't have the time, resources and knowledge to contest them.

On the other hand, Croatia is a wonderful country to sail in, I think amongst the top 3 in Europe.

If you want to stay in Croatia, you really should double- and triple-check whether you understand all the local pitfalls. Where else in Europe is it the only reasonable action to turn off your AIS-sender?

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Topspin

The plan is to immediately ask for TI after the change of flag.

-Richard

Are you sure you ca do that without paying VATwhen the boat has changed hands inside the EU VAT area?

[more]

Originally Posted by Topspin

Hello Joh(n?),

thanks for that. I am required by law to enter the EU with my German passport, so that is no choice and no visa is necessary.

I will bring some documents (last tax return, some utility receipts and maybe a letter from my tax agent).



I actually do not understand your statement about croatia, but I agree on the "fleecing"! Shouldn´t that be a good reason to leave as soon as possible ?


-Richard

what about "fleecing" if I come in Australia and go in a restaurant is free or I must pay for lunch. if use electricity and water is I must pay or is free. if go in this huge building where is lot food on shells and I take food because I am hungry are I obliged to pay this.

if my car is broken and I go in the mechanic garage are I must pay for repair or is free.

if I go in your marina,city port is free or I must pay. And for the USA if I broke legs and go to the hospital are I must pay or is free like in Croatia.

[Topspin]

Originally Posted by Anders

Are you sure you ca do that without paying VATwhen the boat has changed hands inside the EU VAT area?

Not really. Legislation here seems to be a grey area.

It seems to me, it could be wise to leave the EU as soon as possible (maybe a trip to Albania) and then to reenter the EU to trigger the TA procedure.

Has anyone done such a procedure before?



Regards,



-Richard

[Anders]

If I was you I would contact a customs agent in a port city to find out if there is any legal way to avoid paying VAT and what the cost would be if you decide to not follow the law and get caught. Does not happen very often but keep in mind that any customs officer anywhere in the EU VAT area can check on VAT status.

[more]

Originally Posted by Anders

If I was you I would contact a customs agent in a port city to find out if there is any legal way to avoid paying VAT and what the cost would be if you decide to not follow the law and get caught. Does not happen very often but keep in mind that any customs officer anywhere in the EU VAT area can check on VAT status.

100% if you don't have a document on the boat with vat status, the boat is seized and sold on auction. i bay my boat on auction. i search now next boat 50 ft on auction. i see before couple year 60-meter yacht seized because sail from Montenegro to Dubrovnik vat not paid and don't have the document needed for this trip. Everybody thinks I am clever I avoid pay tax and use the yacht privately. The rules are very clear and a boat belonging to a EU citizen, or flying the flag of a EU country, must be VAT paid. This means that both in home waters and when sailing between any EU countries, such boats should carry evidence of VAT payment.
on my boat is a copy of the court decision contract where is price + vat. If I sail to Italy I must go in tax office and ask conformity vat paid and this vat money is be on government account

[Topspin]

Hi all,

the situation is different here:



-the boat is sold for export
-the flag is non-EU
-the owner is no european tax resident


But I agree, it might be an idea to ask a local tax agent.



Regards,



-Richard

[sailorr]

Originally Posted by OZ-Sailor

Hi bellasailor. Yes I ended up buying a Bavaria 40 in Croatia, directly from a Charter company - Dream Yacht charters Who I would highly recommend. It cost me AU$67,000 and I am very happy with her.

When I viewed the boat in February they indicated it would be made ‘charter teady’ ... this meant The engine serviced, the sail drive serviced, I variety of different elements I picked up such as a leaking porthole repaired etc. and they did everything they said they would ... and more.

I can recommend getting in touch with Jerry Jacob at DYC to enquire as to what boats they may have available

gerry.jacob@dreamyachtcharter.com

They are one of the biggest yacht charter companies in the world


I am in fact sitting in a cafe in Greece at the moment LOL. We have a Facebook page blogging what we have been getting up to if you care to view:

https://Facebook.com/livinglostura

I had a good experience with Almissani before I found my boat But yes, I would stay away from Selymar. Even the surveyor who I mentioned earlier in the thread (and can recommend) Peter had bad experiences with them. Others over here from the Facebook group called ‘Med Sailng’ (you should join) also said to stay away from them.

Best of luck in your search and fair winds... let me know how you go!!

Hi, since i'm about to buy an ex charter in croatia as well, just wanted to ask what you did with the vat issue?

[more]

Originally Posted by sailorr

Hi, since i'm about to buy an ex charter in croatia as well, just wanted to ask what you did with the vat issue?

You must use customs brokerage/freight forwarding
List find here https://www.globaltrade.net/Croatia/...-provider.html

Ask by Email customs brokerage (Rijeka,Split,Zadar,Dubrovnik)before find boat, before contact Yacht brokerage.

Now we return to VAT. You are not obligated to pay tax Boat owner is obligated to pay VAT.In this time Charter Company.
He in Document/invoice declare Boat is for export - receive money have your sign on contract.
Now you are obligeited take customs brokerage,customs brokerage deal with Document for export. (you must be in export port, location for me is best Split MCI Marina rent shipyard, boat storage from Custom and government)
now after custom finish inspection and give you new export declaration you must leave closest way EU teritorijal sea. (this from Croatia be Bosnia (Neum 70 nm from Split or Montenegro 140 nm.
Before you bay boat,ask domain where you planing register boat what you from document need,can you remote registry boat ecc.

[more]

Originally Posted by sailorr

Hi, since i'm about to buy an ex charter in croatia

If you bay boat In Croatia i can help you with talking with charter company,broker,customs,check boat history in government (if you know name of boat this is important because lot of boat share ownership with bank, leasing company have debt to somebody,in Croatia charter company must make survey every year for a license for sailing yacht)
When you arrive in Montenegro cancellation of the former registry, sometimes need depends were you planing ship registry.
Rule.
1/you must have money
2/you must have more money and your personal document
3/you must know where you register boat.
4/Now you must have find boat
5/check document on boat side,be in contact with your register
6/leave EU ready for new registration
7/Make new register new document.(you now have 2 country of boat register,and this boat newer be in EU)
8/now you can return in EU,with your new boat and make temporary import with custom.

[Pepijn]

Hi all,

I noticed some feedback on Selymar and would like to add a recent experience to it. After we saw a boat on Yachtworld we contacted Selymar by phone. Answered by Mark. Seemed a very nice bloke, speaking good English and a "no-worries" attitude. We negotiated a bit on the price and the contract would be send over to sign.
Each day we were asking when the contract would be send over to us (brokers can immediately send the contract after price is confirmed with owner right?!). But after 4 days we only got a couple of messages promising us that it arrives next day. It didn't and Mark didn't bother to answer us anymore by phone or Whatsapp.

I considered these 4 days with poor information and lack of follow up shady enough to withdraw my intention to buy.

On a side note, while waiting for the contract we already lined up with a surveyor for a pre-purchase survey. We had great and quick responses in good English from Luca Marziale. While I cannot judge his surveying work, his responsiveness should be a great example for Selymar how to treat potential clients. His survey was very competitevely priced for a 47ft yacht (<900 Euro).

[more]

Originally Posted by Pepijn

Hi all,

I noticed some feedback on Selymar and would like to add a recent experience to it. After we saw a boat on Yachtworld we contacted Selymar by phone. Answered by Mark. Seemed a very nice bloke, speaking good English and a "no-worries" attitude. We negotiated a bit on the price and the contract would be send over to sign.
Each day we were asking when the contract would be send over to us (brokers can immediately send the contract after price is confirmed with owner right?!). But after 4 days we only got a couple of messages promising us that it arrives next day. It didn't and Mark didn't bother to answer us anymore by phone or Whatsapp.

I considered these 4 days with poor information and lack of follow up shady enough to withdraw my intention to buy.

On a side note, while waiting for the contract we already lined up with a surveyor for a pre-purchase survey. We had great and quick responses in good English from Luca Marziale. While I cannot judge his surveying work, his responsiveness should be a great example for Selymar how to treat potential clients. His survey was very competitevely priced for a 47ft yacht (<900 Euro).

every boat usually selling couple broker. Selymar is greec owner company.

what type of contract. who is owner of boat. register number. Also sometime owner pull boat from market

[Pepijn]

Thanks for your response! Mark called me back today to tell me the same and asked again for patience. I realise that indeed multiple brokers are used and therefore he needs sellers ok to send me the contract. I am surprised. I bought and sold real estate in Singapore and this is kinda frowned upon. If you cannot rely on 1 broker to do a proper job why engaging them is surprising to me.

As a humble, inexperience person new to the yacht market it is an eye opener. Thanks!