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[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Exile

The sort of spin which helps make politicians into heroes. Just read that Gov. Cuomo will be awarded for an Emmy (not kidding but could be faux news). Seems appropriate since so many people liked his "performance" during his daily pressers, notwithstanding the decisionmaking you're referring to. Also presents a nice contrast with the rather bungled performance of the big guy in DC. Iow, it all fits political narratives quite nicely but not necessarily the truth.

It's true!
Cumo's award comes for his TV performance, and is NOT related to his policy performance.
That's what an Emmy is for.
The Emmy Awards recognize excellence within various areas of television and emerging media.


NEW YORK GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO RECEIVE 2020 INTERNATIONAL EMMY® FOUNDERS AWARD
International Academy to Recognize his Effective Use of Television During the Pandemic

The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences announced Friday that it is breaking with tradition and awarding its International Emmy Founders Award to a real politician who is currently in office. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is being honored with the award for his daily coronavirus briefings earlier this year.
"The Governor's 111 daily briefings worked so well because he effectively created television shows, with characters, plot lines, and stories of success and failure," the academy's president and CEO, Bruce Paisner, explained in a statement announcing the decision. "People around the world tuned in to find out what was going on, and New York tough became a symbol of the determination to fight back."
The Founder’s Award is presented to an individual or organization who “crosses cultural boundaries to touch our common humanity”.

More ➥ https://www.iemmys.tv/new-york-gover...ounders-award/

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

Maybe you haven't seen it because you're not looking for it. Or it doesn't fit the agenda of your sources of information. Beats me, but I do have some first-hand information that contradicts your unresearched assumptions.

...Covid doesn't always lend itself to neat correlations as much as some would like it to, all too often for partisan purposes of course.

Hey, thrilled that your old man is thriving. I knew I missed at least one home when I was phoning around.

The only thing unresearched is your snide response; the plural of anecdote is not data, as fortunate as your one example is. A little help.

Of course steps have been taken. Yet, in general these targets remain seriously affected. In both Canada and the US. Conclusion?

The sort of spin which helps make politicians into heroes. Just read that Gov. Cuomo will be awarded for an Emmy (not kidding but could be faux news). Seems appropriate since so many people liked his "performance" during his daily pressers, notwithstanding the decisionmaking you're referring to. Also presents a nice contrast with the rather bungled performance of the big guy in DC. Iow, it all fits political narratives quite nicely but not necessarily the truth.

Well, I'm sorry that that juicy Cuomo attack meme is a little more involved than right-wing zealots would like. After that big spring surge, NYC was quite effective, relatively speaking, in reducing the spread. That counts, too.

Nice little digs, btw. Some things never change.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by GordMay

It's true!
Cumo's award comes for his TV performance, and is NOT related to his policy performance.
That's what an Emmy is for.
The Emmy Awards recognize excellence within various areas of television and emerging media.


NEW YORK GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO RECEIVE 2020 INTERNATIONAL EMMY® FOUNDERS AWARD
International Academy to Recognize his Effective Use of Television During the Pandemic

The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences announced Friday that it is breaking with tradition and awarding its International Emmy Founders Award to a real politician who is currently in office. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is being honored with the award for his daily coronavirus briefings earlier this year.
"The Governor's 111 daily briefings worked so well because he effectively created television shows, with characters, plot lines, and stories of success and failure," the academy's president and CEO, Bruce Paisner, explained in a statement announcing the decision. "People around the world tuned in to find out what was going on, and New York tough became a symbol of the determination to fight back."
The Founder’s Award is presented to an individual or organization who “crosses cultural boundaries to touch our common humanity”.

More ➥ https://www.iemmys.tv/new-york-gover...ounders-award/

Bahahahaha


Wow.... but seeing it’s cuomo it doesn’t really surprise me

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hey, thrilled that your old man is thriving. I knew I missed at least one home when I was phoning around.

You must have missed the part of my post where I identified federal authorities (CDC & CMS) who have imposed the rules and regs, some of them (e.g. visitation) way back on March 15th. You know, the FEDS, the agencies the big guy is in charge of (for a little while longer anyway) that all the states and locals have to follow. I wouldn't suggest all these regs are mandatory, that compliance is uniform nationwide, or that all states and locals are following through as well as my father's facility has been, but the federal involvement belies your constant memes about US "leadership" woes.

The only thing unresearched is your snide response; the plural of anecdote is not data, as fortunate as your one example is. A little help.

Thank for the help, especially since it was more than just a little. Your article actually reinforced the inevitable vulnerability of concentrated elderly populations, despite preventative measures taken by national, state, and local authorities, along with the facilities themselves. This directly contradicts your post where you asserted (or certainly implied) that the anti-lockdown crowd's advocacy for limiting harsh restrictions to elderly and other vulnerable populations has failed because Covid is "ripping" through these facilities. As we've now witnessed time and again, Covid has both responded favorably in some instances but also defied restrictive policies, and often doesn't care about "leadership."

Of course steps have been taken. Yet, in general these targets remain seriously affected. In both Canada and the US. Conclusion?

Again, from your helpful article (from which you only appeared to have read the headline):

“You are going to potentially see more fatalities in these facilities, and I think a majority of these fatalities are because of the frailty many patients already had, which then placed them at higher risk for mortality, and not necessarily poor preparation or care.”

The point is that we ARE protecting the elderly and HAVE BEEN for some time, and that INCLUDES THE FEDS. Simply because these efforts haven't been as successful as we all would have obviously preferred, or that improved systemic safeguards shouldn't be adopted (as the article also points out), doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Well, I'm sorry that that juicy Cuomo attack meme is a little more involved than right-wing zealots would like. After that big spring surge, NYC was quite effective, relatively speaking, in reducing the spread. That counts, too.

I'm not sure if the Cuomo criticism is entirely justified, but I'm pretty sure your attempt to excuse it (with help from Snopes) was not. And if I wasn't so fearful of being stereotyped as a right-wing zealot, I wouldn't mention how much the nursing home lobby donates to Dem & Repub politicians alike. But that's no reason, on its own, to assume Cuomo's decision was corruptly influenced. Such accusations and insinuations are only valid, after all, to conservative funders who give money to conservative think tanks who (lo & behold) help give a voice to conservative intellectuals like Thomas Sowell, right? Its works pretty well, just ask George Soros and Michael Bloomberg, along with Charles Koch to be fair. How about all that "dark money".

Nice little digs, btw. Some things never change.

That's true, and probably won't. Unless you can find the objectivity to consider that your frequent oversimplifications of complex issues, and mischaracterizations of peoples' posts, are right out of partisan playbooks. (you just did it again with Dockhead). The US election is over after all (I think even Trump may now know), and it could well be that the exact same memes you've been parroting for months (T's failed leadership, etc.) carried the day for the Dems. So congrats, but let's try and get back to discussing the efficacy of actual Covid policies, and not how they score points for politicians and their sycophants who share their agendas. I get the sense that most people, at least here in the US, have had enough of our crazy politics for awhile.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

It's true!
Cumo's award comes for his TV performance, and is NOT related to his policy performance.
That's what an Emmy is for.
The Emmy Awards recognize excellence within various areas of television and emerging media.


NEW YORK GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO TO RECEIVE 2020 INTERNATIONAL EMMY® FOUNDERS AWARD
International Academy to Recognize his Effective Use of Television During the Pandemic

The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences announced Friday that it is breaking with tradition and awarding its International Emmy Founders Award to a real politician who is currently in office. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is being honored with the award for his daily coronavirus briefings earlier this year.
"The Governor's 111 daily briefings worked so well because he effectively created television shows, with characters, plot lines, and stories of success and failure," the academy's president and CEO, Bruce Paisner, explained in a statement announcing the decision. "People around the world tuned in to find out what was going on, and New York tough became a symbol of the determination to fight back."
The Founder’s Award is presented to an individual or organization who “crosses cultural boundaries to touch our common humanity”.

More ➥ https://www.iemmys.tv/new-york-gover...ounders-award/

Thanks Gord! I did a double-take when I first read it was an Emmy, but I trust your research more than the media outlets these days! I have a large group of close family members who live in and around NYC, and they all think Cuomo is a God for his daily pressers. They're also all extremely liberal/loyal Dems, so yeah . . . . But I think Cuomo did effectively rally support for strong restrictions, and the very real crisis was thereafter averted (although surging again now), so he's deserving of credit. Certainly more than De Blasio . . .

[goboatingnow]

Note also that lockdowns may have little direct effect on educated white collar workers who can work from home, but devastating effects on the working poor in service industries which are ordered closed. So the overall, average statistics mask devastating effects on the most vulnerable.
__________________

Reasonable countries recognised that fact and have provided fed extraordinary support largely against at the low paid. In some cases providing 80% or more of pre-covid wages. The economic crash predicted actually hasn’t occurred. Yes the national budgetary situation is worse as a result, but it’s the lesser of two evils

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

... let's try and get back to discussing the efficacy of actual Covid policies, and not how they score points for politicians and their sycophants who share their agendas.

If COVID-19 is still hitting those vulnerable places hard, do you think that the precautions or adjustments implemented to date have been sufficient? (That's discussing actual Covid policy, innit? Yet it was just another springboard for your usual personal jabs.)

My friend DH has informed us of his concerns about the harmful impact of lockdowns. Over and over and over and over and over. But he hasn't been as forthcoming about what he thinks could work instead. He's stated his opinion that we are, in economic terms, overvaluing the lives lost to COVID-19. Without more insight into his thinking, it seems that he's gently suggesting that, all things considered, we should use a light hand, be prepared to let the virus circulate to some extent, and to be more sanguine about the casualties.

This isn't a shocking position, it's very pragmatic and to some extent realistic. It might even turn out to be the right position, if economies are as fragile as DH fears.

In the meantime, COVID-19 isn't some far-off, won't-affect-us-so-we-don't-GAF, partisan CF plaything like AGW; it's a current, happening-now, realtime-consequences issue. I remain very interested in the suggestions from people like DH... if he would only provide them

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If COVID-19 is still hitting those vulnerable places hard, do you think that the precautions or adjustments implemented to date have been sufficient? (That's discussing actual Covid policy, innit? Yet it was just another springboard for your usual personal jabs.)

My friend DH has informed us of his concerns about the harmful impact of lockdowns. Over and over and over and over and over. But he hasn't been as forthcoming about what he thinks could work instead. He's stated his opinion that we are, in economic terms, overvaluing the lives lost to COVID-19. Without more insight into his thinking, it seems that he's gently suggesting that, all things considered, we should use a light hand, be prepared to let the virus circulate to some extent, and to be more sanguine about the casualties.

This isn't a shocking position, it's very pragmatic and to some extent realistic. It might even turn out to be the right position, if economies are as fragile as DH fears.

In the meantime, COVID-19 isn't some far-off, won't-affect-us-so-we-don't-GAF, partisan CF plaything like AGW; it's a current, happening-now, realtime-consequences issue. I remain very interested in the suggestions from people like DH... if he would only provide them

Well depending on your health it might not affect you, like all correct answers “depends”

What I really don’t get is, what do you want??

This virus has been around since late 2019, all the data is out there, go to CDC, go research and figure out what works BEST FOR YOU, and do it.
Freedom is great in that you can make that choice for yourself, without requiring the reaffirmation from some pointless politician or a so so gov payroll doctor.

The only thing worse than making health decisions based on some guy on the internets opinion, is going off a glorified DMV workers opinion.

Read the raw data, consult the odds with your calculator, inject a little common sense, make YOUR move.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

What I really don’t get is, what do you want??

I get that you don't get what I'm about. You've made your position crystal-clear, and I have a pretty good idea about what ideas you're prepared to consider or not. So I won't waste your time.

[goboatingnow]

Read the raw data, consult the odds with your calculator, inject a little common sense, make YOUR move.

The scientific data is complex , requires a basic understanding of science and medicine and can be quite impenetrable to people without the requisite background. You’re suggestion can simply mislead people who finding the basic data difficult to comprehend turn to pseudo-science sources and then form dangerously incorrect conclusions

It’s why we have “ experts” in law, medicine ,building , etc , some even work for the Gov too. So , do i trust Fauci or limbaugh, I know who I listen to

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I get that you don't get what I'm about. You've made your position crystal-clear, and I have a pretty good idea about what ideas you're prepared to consider or not. So I won't waste your time.

I don’t really have a “position”.

I would not advise that what works for me would work for you,
Don’t know you any more than you know me, my only point is people need to stick to making choices for themselves and their family, not for others whom they don’t even know, the closest thing to a “position” I might have is that adults make better decision for themselves than government will make for them

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The scientific data is complex , requires a basic understanding of science and medicine and can be quite impenetrable to people without the requisite background. You’re suggestion can simply mislead people who finding the basic data difficult to comprehend turn to pseudo-science sources and then form dangerously incorrect conclusions

It’s why we have “ experts” in law, medicine ,building , etc , some even work for the Gov too. So , do i trust Fauci or limbaugh, I know who I listen to

Medical blunders are the third leading cause of death in the US, and that’s from active docs, not government docs who don’t even spend any time in the field. Taking charge of your own medical decision is a VERY good idea, folks who blindly follow docs or any skilled labor often have more issues.

Also
“ Dr. Fauci claimed that AIDS might be transmissible by “routine close contact.” (May 5, 1983, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association). (Michael Fumento, The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS, p. 237).”
Fauci and the real doomer doc Ferguson, who has a documented history always wrongly saying the sky is falling, I’d not recommend using people like that as your voice of reason and more than rush


You don’t need to understand the virus on a virologist level to make choices for your family.

Just look at the tables on who it kills, how many in said group had high morbidity and mortality rates, who’s having complications with pre existing conditions (which they do like to hide with this virus for some reason), look at how it’s spread based on confirmed data on CDC,, and make YOUR call
. The data that you really need to understand is more or less high school level stuff.

It seems like folks just want a “authority” figure to pat them on the head, say it’s going to be OK, and make the choices for them. It’s a religion like thing to witness in society

[JPA Cate]

Things that will help:

Short term:

1. Discontinue large face to face group endeavours, concerts, sports, etc. ...Or, mask up for them....routinely.

2. Practice social distancing and hand sanitizing.

3. Establish a way of tracking vectors and quarantining people who test positive for the disease. Reciprocal quarantine services for folks who travel internationally for business.

Longer term:

1. Encouraging more health care workers. Twelve hr shifts are too long. How about three 8 hr. work schedules per day, to reduce burnout. And, wages adequate for them to live on without working 3 jobs, and adequate health care.

2. Encourage more death care, cremation for those who are willing. Where possible, folks could consider minimum environmental impact recycling of our bodies.

3. Encourage better ventilation engineering and practices, and machinery, so air can be sanitized in buildings where people do gather, from hospitals and businesses to religious congregation.

4. Figure out how to pay for all of it, first; after accepting it is necessary.

In Australia, where I am writing from, the first three have mostly been addressed, and we have been fortunate, so far. Imo, Australia is closer than the US to living wages for workers; plus they have a national health scheme in place.

However, IMO, the problems we face are complex, and the changes Western society will have to make are also not easy of acceptance nor addressing: there are some things almost no one is even beginning to talk about.

Actually, I'm thinking it is sort of silly to think we on Cruisers Forum can solve the problems of even just the Western world. Hubris!

Ann

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

, the closest thing to a “position” I might have is that adults make better decision for themselves than government will make for them

Its a shame so many of those adults are so dumb, brainwashed and delusional.

The imagery of mass gatherings and parties taking place over there with not a jot of thought of ramifications is appalling

USA #1 in the covid race to the bottom.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Things that will help:

Short term:

1. Discontinue large face to face group endeavours, concerts, sports, etc. ...Or, mask up for them....routinely.

2. Practice social distancing and hand sanitizing.

3. Establish a way of tracking vectors and quarantining people who test positive for the disease. Reciprocal quarantine services for folks who travel internationally for business.

Longer term:

1. Encouraging more health care workers. Twelve hr shifts are too long. How about three 8 hr. work schedules per day, to reduce burnout. And, wages adequate for them to live on without working 3 jobs, and adequate health care.

2. Encourage more death care, cremation for those who are willing. Where possible, folks could consider minimum environmental impact recycling of our bodies.

3. Encourage better ventilation engineering and practices, and machinery, so air can be sanitized in buildings where people do gather, from hospitals and businesses to religious congregation.

4. Figure out how to pay for all of it, first; after accepting it is necessary.

In Australia, where I am writing from, the first three have mostly been addressed, and we have been fortunate, so far. Imo, Australia is closer than the US to living wages for workers; plus they have a national health scheme in place.

However, IMO, the problems we face are complex, and the changes Western society will have to make are also not easy of acceptance nor addressing: there are some things almost no one is even beginning to talk about.

Actually, I'm thinking it is sort of silly to think we on Cruisers Forum can solve the problems of even just the Western world. Hubris!

Ann

Or RECOMMEND the very old and very sick bunker down, like you would during the flu season, or when any other virus is making the rounds.

And for everyone else, just get on with life, presume you’re going to get and get over it like you would a bad flu.

Of course if you are concerned you can wear whatever you want, or stay home, or whatever you choose is best for you

Hubris would be thinking you know what’s best for others better than they do.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

I don’t really have a “position”.

...It seems like folks just want a “authority” figure to pat them on the head, say it’s going to be OK, and make the choices for them. It’s a religion like thing to witness in society

You seem to have a belief, bordering on the religious, that collective altruistic action to achieve a greater good is wrong. Hey, we all read Ayn Rand, but most of us got past it.